Divorce Matters - Advice Needed

tomcat007 · #1 12-09-2008, 04:41 PM

Hi Bros

I am currently in discussion with my soon-to-be ex-wife on getting a divorce and have some questions which I hope brothers here (especially those who have gone through the same or familiar with divorce law) can advise.

Our situation is very clear cut. We do not have any kid, hence there is no custody or "kid's maintenance" to talk about. In addition, she has already written in an email to me saying that "she don't think she'll take alimony from me". The fact is that she is earning much more than me and does not need to take a single cent from me to maintain her current lifestyle.

The only thing we have to settle is the hdb flat that we bought about 8 years ago and am currently staying in. Due to financial abilities, the difference between our contribution is about $20k (eg. she - $70k, me - $50k). I'm responsible for the utility bills every month (about $100 per month) while she's responsible for buying the necessities (about $50 every 2 months). When we got the flat, I also took a loan to pay for the renovation. This loan is about $24k and is entirely paid for by me. I do retain all the invoices and loan papers with regards to the flat.

Here're the questions that I hope brothers here can advise:

Question 1: If she later want to claim alimony when we go to lawyer/court, can I then present this email from her when trying to negotiate for a low amount or even no alimony?

Question 2: In my case, how will the court decide which party will get how much % of the flat sale? I'm concerned as currently, she has definitely contributed more with regards to the purchase price of the flat but, if the renovation loan is taken into consideration (which I think should be the case as renovation is required to bring the flat into live-able condition), then I have contributed more.

Question 3: Can anyone recommend a lawyer that is affordable? She got a lawyer but it cost about $2,500 which I think should be the market price. But of course, if can get a more affordable one will be better.

Question 4: Her lawyer is saying that although we have mutually consented to getting a divorce, our grounds for a divorce is not good enough for an immediate divorce. Hence, unless we use

1. Adultery or
2. Unreasonable behavior or
3. Desertion for 2 years

we need at least 3 years separation in order to get a divorce.

My question is... Can the "3 years separation" period be back dated? For example, like we have been living separate lives (although under the same roof) since 3 years ago? Do we have to provide proof if we say so? Will there be any implication legally if it's found out to be false? I am concerned about this point as we did actually go for a trip together a few months back. So, if it is illegal to backdate the separation period, then I'll forget about it. (I don't want to be caught with my pants down...)

Question 5: I don't mind using adultery or unreasonable behavior on my part if it can help to settle this divorce fast. But, will there be any implication in how the court decide on the apportionment of the flat %?

I understand this post is a bit long... but I really hope that any brothers here who is experience or knowledgeable in this area can help. All these years, she has been a good wife for me. That things have reach such a stage, I have a lot to be responsible for. No, I did not commit adultery or did anything wrong to her. My inability to hold a regular job and bring sufficient money home is the main issue here. The only fault on her part is that she didn't (or didn't want to) get along with my family and bear me a kid (although I understand it could be due to financial concern).

Despite that, I also don't want to be at a disadvantage when it comes to monetary matters. All I want is to get a fair share here.

Hence, brothers.... your advice(s) will be very much appreciated.

.

Bangster · #2 12-09-2008, 05:44 PM

I would suggest waiting out the 3 years and don't do anything silly that can be used as evidence in court against you later.

The email stating no need for alimony is 1 thing, you can never guess the outcome later when things start to take a turn for the worse.....

Like a scout - BE PREPARED!

Royster79 · #3 12-09-2008, 05:56 PM

Hi bro, from what u post, since u said that she has been a good wife all these years, how come u all wanted a divorce?? Dun u think that all these years of relationship is wasted?? I presume that both of u dun have a big issue...

Make her understand that although u r unable to make big $$ now, that doesn't mean that u will not in future... but of coz, u have to show her that u really did put in hardwork...

From my POV, u two lack of communication... U got to find out y she dun want to have a kid.. then from there, both can try to work out a solution.. As for family relationship, infact, many wife cannot get along well with MIL..

Just make sure that they both dun see each other so often can liao... The problematic 1 might not be ur wife, it could be ur mum( sorry if this sounds a bit offensive ).. I know its hard for u to be sandwich in-between... But do u realise that the most possible person to live old with u is ur wife and not ur parents?? Of coz, this statement is not to ask u to always side ur wife, instead, always look at things from another point... u might see it even clearer...

For me, i dun like to see ppl getting divorce becoz of communication problems... If adultery is involve, i will definitely side the victim and support the divorce... But in ur case, i dun see a big problem..

These are just some of my thinking... The final decision still lies with u... But do remember, do not regret whatever decision u make...All the best to u.. Take care

tomcat007 · #4 12-09-2008, 06:09 PM

Royster

Thanks for your reply and concern.

I do really appreciate it.

But, the way I look at it, there is really no way that we can save this marriage already. Though I feel that the time we spent together will be so wasted, but I could no longer look at her and say I love her anymore. Whether she wants to bear me a child or not, it is no longer important as my mother is no longer around now.

Plus, the fact is that she's the one who bring up the issue of divorce.

Anyway, thanks for your concern.

slider_72 · #5 12-09-2008, 06:12 PM

Here're the questions that I hope brothers here can advise:

Question 1: If she later want to claim alimony when we go to lawyer/court, can I then present this email from her when trying to negotiate for a low amount or even no alimony?

Since you are probably going to have a three-year separation, why don't you sign a deed of separation and stating in the deed what sort of arrangements you both can agree on after the divorce? Anyway, maintenance depends on the respective income of both spouses. If her income is higher than yours, what maintenance are you talking about? Have you supported her lifestyle during the marriage? Since your income is lower than hers, probably you did not even give her any money whilst you were married. Chances are she will not be entitled to any maintenance.

Question 2: In my case, how will the court decide which party will get how much % of the flat sale? I'm concerned as currently, she has definitely contributed more with regards to the purchase price of the flat but, if the renovation loan is taken into consideration (which I think should be the case as renovation is required to bring the flat into live-able condition), then I have contributed more.

Based on your respective financial contributions in acquiring the asset, non-financial contributions maintaining or improving the asset, the length of time you were married, etc. If you were not married for long, and the total financial contributions are almost equal, chances are you will get a 50:50 split.

Question 3: Can anyone recommend a lawyer that is affordable? She got a lawyer but it cost about $2,500 which I think should be the market price. But of course, if can get a more affordable one will be better.

Want cheap want good where to find?

Question 4: Her lawyer is saying that although we have mutually consented to getting a divorce, our grounds for a divorce is not good enough for an immediate divorce. Hence, unless we use

1. Adultery or
2. Unreasonable behavior or
3. Desertion for 2 years

we need at least 3 years separation in order to get a divorce.

My question is... Can the "3 years separation" period be back dated? For example, like we have been living separate lives (although under the same roof) since 3 years ago? Do we have to provide proof if we say so? Will there be any implication legally if it's found out to be false? I am concerned about this point as we did actually go for a trip together a few months back. So, if it is illegal to backdate the separation period, then I'll forget about it. (I don't want to be caught with my pants down...)

You will be required to swear on oath the true of the matters stated. If you tell a lie on oath, it is contempt of court. Technically you can be imprisoned for contempt of court although it is not common. You want to take a risk that nobody will find out, then its up to you lor.

Question 5: I don't mind using adultery or unreasonable behavior on my part if it can help to settle this divorce fast. But, will there be any implication in how the court decide on the apportionment of the flat %?

Since no adultery or unreasonable behaviour, how to rely on these two grounds unless you lie on oath? See answer to question above on contempt of court. Anyway if you do decide to tell a big fat lie, it should not affect the division of the HDB flat. See answer to question 2 above.

Despite that, I also don't want to be at a disadvantage when it comes to monetary matters. All I want is to get a fair share here.

What is a fair share? I am not sure how long you have been married but she probably spent a not insignificant part of her life with you. If you want to talk about fair, how about the number of times you slept with her, the number of times she cooked for you and did your laundry, the happy times you had in the past? Is she going to be compensated for those sacrifices? I am not saying that you did not make any sacrifices on your part as well but be man about it. The worse thing after a divorce is to fight over $1 here and $2 there.

Royster79 · #6 12-09-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat007

Royster

Thanks for your reply and concern.

I do really appreciate it.

But, the way I look at it, there is really no way that we can save this marriage already. Though I feel that the time we spent together will be so wasted, but I could no longer look at her and say I love her anymore. Whether she wants to bear me a child or not, it is no longer important as my mother is no longer around now.

Plus, the fact is that she's the one who bring up the issue of divorce.

Anyway, thanks for your concern.

U r welcome bro... But still the same sentence... DO NOT regret whatever decision u make...

tomcat007 · #7 12-09-2008, 06:27 PM

Question 1: If she later want to claim alimony when we go to lawyer/court, can I then present this email from her when trying to negotiate for a low amount or even no alimony?

Since you are probably going to have a three-year separation, why don't you sign a deed of separation and stating in the deed what sort of arrangements you both can agree on after the divorce? Anyway, maintenance depends on the respective income of both spouses. If her income is higher than yours, what maintenance are you talking about? Have you supported her lifestyle during the marriage? Since your income is lower than hers, probably you did not even give her any money whilst you were married. Chances are she will not be entitled to any maintenance.

Noted! Thanks....

Question 2: In my case, how will the court decide which party will get how much % of the flat sale? I'm concerned as currently, she has definitely contributed more with regards to the purchase price of the flat but, if the renovation loan is taken into consideration (which I think should be the case as renovation is required to bring the flat into live-able condition), then I have contributed more.

Based on your respective financial contributions in acquiring the asset, non-financial contributions maintaining or improving the asset, the length of time you were married, etc. If you were not married for long, and the total financial contributions are almost equal, chances are you will get a 50:50 split.

So I take it that the renovation loan will be taken into consideration? Noted!

Question 3: Can anyone recommend a lawyer that is affordable? She got a lawyer but it cost about $2,500 which I think should be the market price. But of course, if can get a more affordable one will be better.

Want cheap want good where to find?

LOL... True. I also know difficult, but no harm asking right?

Question 4: Her lawyer is saying that although we have mutually consented to getting a divorce, our grounds for a divorce is not good enough for an immediate divorce. Hence, unless we use

1. Adultery or
2. Unreasonable behavior or
3. Desertion for 2 years

we need at least 3 years separation in order to get a divorce.

My question is... Can the "3 years separation" period be back dated? For example, like we have been living separate lives (although under the same roof) since 3 years ago? Do we have to provide proof if we say so? Will there be any implication legally if it's found out to be false? I am concerned about this point as we did actually go for a trip together a few months back. So, if it is illegal to backdate the separation period, then I'll forget about it. (I don't want to be caught with my pants down...)

You will be required to swear on oath the true of the matters stated. If you tell a lie on oath, it is contempt of court. Technically you can be imprisoned for contempt of court although it is not common. You want to take a risk that nobody will find out, then its up to you lor.

Noted! That's what I fear too. Don't want to be on the wrong side of the law also.

Question 5: I don't mind using adultery or unreasonable behavior on my part if it can help to settle this divorce fast. But, will there be any implication in how the court decide on the apportionment of the flat %?

Since no adultery or unreasonable behaviour, how to rely on these two grounds unless you lie on oath? See answer to question above on contempt of court. Anyway if you do decide to tell a big fat lie, it should not affect the division of the HDB flat. See answer to question 2 above.

Noted! Thanks...

Despite that, I also don't want to be at a disadvantage when it comes to monetary matters. All I want is to get a fair share here.

What is a fair share? I am not sure how long you have been married but she probably spent a not insignificant part of her life with you. If you want to talk about fair, how about the number of times you slept with her, the number of times she cooked for you and did your laundry, the happy times you had in the past? Is she going to be compensated for those sacrifices? I am not saying that you did not make any sacrifices on your part as well but be man about it. The worse thing after a divorce is to fight over $1 here and $2 there.

Yes, I understand there is no fairness when affairs of the heart is concerned. We do have very happy times together. Pak Tor for 2-3 years followed by married for 8 years liao. It's not a short period of time. ** sigh ** I also don't wish matters to reach this stage.

Anyway, I'll be discussing with her before going to the lawyers...

Thanks though for your comments.

cavemanng · #8 12-09-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slider_72

Here're the questions that I hope brothers here can advise:

Question 1: If she later want to claim alimony when we go to lawyer/court, can I then present this email from her when trying to negotiate for a low amount or even no alimony?

Since you are probably going to have a three-year separation, why don't you sign a deed of separation and stating in the deed what sort of arrangements you both can agree on after the divorce? Anyway, maintenance depends on the respective income of both spouses. If her income is higher than yours, what maintenance are you talking about? Have you supported her lifestyle during the marriage? Since your income is lower than hers, probably you did not even give her any money whilst you were married. Chances are she will not be entitled to any maintenance.

I don't think so. Normally, the odds will swing towards women. Ask your lawyer and I believe he/ she will say the same thing

Question 2: In my case, how will the court decide which party will get how much % of the flat sale? I'm concerned as currently, she has definitely contributed more with regards to the purchase price of the flat but, if the renovation loan is taken into consideration (which I think should be the case as renovation is required to bring the flat into live-able condition), then I have contributed more.

Based on your respective financial contributions in acquiring the asset, non-financial contributions maintaining or improving the asset, the length of time you were married, etc. If you were not married for long, and the total financial contributions are almost equal, chances are you will get a 50:50 split.

I don't think so. Normally, the odds will swing towards women. Ask your lawyer and I believe he/ she will say the same thing

Question 3: Can anyone recommend a lawyer that is affordable? She got a lawyer but it cost about $2,500 which I think should be the market price. But of course, if can get a more affordable one will be better.

Want cheap want good where to find?

There is 1 building in Chinatown where there are a lot of lawyers. No need great lawyers to file for divorce case. Anyone will do.

Question 4: Her lawyer is saying that although we have mutually consented to getting a divorce, our grounds for a divorce is not good enough for an immediate divorce. Hence, unless we use

1. Adultery or
2. Unreasonable behavior or
3. Desertion for 2 years

we need at least 3 years separation in order to get a divorce.

My question is... Can the "3 years separation" period be back dated? For example, like we have been living separate lives (although under the same roof) since 3 years ago? Do we have to provide proof if we say so? Will there be any implication legally if it's found out to be false? I am concerned about this point as we did actually go for a trip together a few months back. So, if it is illegal to backdate the separation period, then I'll forget about it. (I don't want to be caught with my pants down...)

You will be required to swear on oath the true of the matters stated. If you tell a lie on oath, it is contempt of court. Technically you can be imprisoned for contempt of court although it is not common. You want to take a risk that nobody will find out, then its up to you lor.

Wait. There is nothing you can do. Anyway, just some procedure to follow. I doubt it will affect either of you.

Question 5: I don't mind using adultery or unreasonable behavior on my part if it can help to settle this divorce fast. But, will there be any implication in how the court decide on the apportionment of the flat %?

Since no adultery or unreasonable behaviour, how to rely on these two grounds unless you lie on oath? See answer to question above on contempt of court. Anyway if you do decide to tell a big fat lie, it should not affect the division of the HDB flat. See answer to question 2 above.

If you use adultery or unreasonable behavior, the odds will immediately swing towards your wife. This will spoil the judge's impression of you. Ask your lawyer, I believe this is so.

Despite that, I also don't want to be at a disadvantage when it comes to monetary matters. All I want is to get a fair share here.

What is a fair share? I am not sure how long you have been married but she probably spent a not insignificant part of her life with you. If you want to talk about fair, how about the number of times you slept with her, the number of times she cooked for you and did your laundry, the happy times you had in the past? Is she going to be compensated for those sacrifices? I am not saying that you did not make any sacrifices on your part as well but be man about it. The worse thing after a divorce is to fight over $1 here and $2 there.

Leave this thing to the hands of the judge. I am sure as long as the husband is proven wrong, the wife will get more. End of story.

dgsk · #9 12-09-2008, 06:58 PM

Bro TS
I think you've got all the advice you need from Royster79 and Slider_72.

I think you are only going to divorce on the grounds of "irreconcilable differences"; which appears to be the truth. So get the deed of separation ASAP. The best you can hope for is to back date it a few months subject to both parties and your lawyers agreeing.

During the separation, I believe you can both lead rather "free" lives except for having affairs of a sexual nature; ie don't get caught with your pants down and no live in girlfriends.

As for the flat, if both parties agree, it can be disposed of now, subject to you complying to HDB rules. Then you can come to an agreement on how the monies should be dealt with now. That minimises any chance of anyone having a change of mind during the 3 years. It also means both of you will no longer be staying under the same roof; thus minimising any potential behavioral agitations and aggravations. It also limits your concern of maintenance since, for the period of separation, she has not relied upon you for financial support. This moves the separation and divorce closer to a level of formalities. During this period, you should then avoid as much as possible crossing paths with her for the same reason. But all this can only work if both parties truly want an amicable divorce.

Good Luck.

tomcat007 · #10 12-09-2008, 07:00 PM

caveman and dgsk

Thanks for your advice.

Seems like the 3 years separation is the only way to move forward.

Will talk to her and see how it goes.

Thanks.

cavemanng · #11 12-09-2008, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat007

caveman and dgsk

Thanks for your advice.

Seems like the 3 years separation is the only way to move forward.

Will talk to her and see how it goes.

Thanks.

All the best!

blur boy · #12 12-09-2008, 07:14 PM

Bro....one more advise from me.

NEVER NEVER trust what the women say eg:
1) You can go and have your affairs...
2) I do not want to have your alimony...

Becauce during the 3 years of separation...ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN!!!! and like what many old centuries have said before, NEVER INCUR THE WRATH OF A WOMAN....

So be smart and play ball...

Lychee · #13 12-09-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat007

Question 1: If she later want to claim alimony when we go to lawyer/court, can I then present this email from her when trying to negotiate for a low amount or even no alimony?

I heard normally the wife's lawyer will advice her to ask for a nominal fee of $1/mth. This will leave the whole case wide open and she can came back for more if the need arises.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat007

All I want is to get a fair share here.

The moment you sign the ROM paper, the Woman Charter kick in, it is assume that you have forgo your Right of Fairest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat007

Anyway, I'll be discussing with her before going to the lawyers...[/COLOR][/B]

It seem to me u are having a 'peaceful' divorce rather than a 'violent' type. Do have a good discussion with her, else Woman Charter will protect her.

Good Luck