KTV gals | angels or devils ?

[bloody_vlahov]

i have decided to start a new thread for a couple of reasons. firstly, i saw a thread that promotes discussions about how KTV gals con Singaporean men; and while i feel there's truth in it, i can't help but notice that those discussions tend to be rather one-sided. secondly, i really believe that a more balanced and thought-provoking discussion about how these situations come to be make excellent reading. please avoid gals bashing and self-sympathy. they belong in the kiddy section tucked somewhere between oblivion and ignorance ...

was flipping through the threads in this forum last night while waiting for bolton vs arsenal, and yes, i've been an arsenal fan for the past 20 years (when michael thomas scored the injury time goal against liverpool to win the title, and no, no arsenal-bashing/flaming !), saw a thread that discusses how KTV gals con singaporean men, and how nice men get taken in by their sob stories etc ...

well, i can't claim to be a KTV veteran, having only been to these places for a year +/-, but i've seen a fair bit of action, had hellava lot of fun with fella cheongsters, some hits and misses, many late nights, but no heart-burn ... and it's not because i subscribe to any of the cliches often-wrote-about in this forum (not for love, but for fun etc ...), but because i am open-minded about the entire paradigm. and the paradigm is: men need certain things, the KTV gals need certain things. if the puzzle were to fit, both the man and gal must come to an agreement. otherwise, no deal

for example, man wants sex with KTV gal. man willing to pay $200, gal says $300. negotiate, deal/no deal. finale. however, this equation gets more complicated when it's about more than just wham/bam/bye. man wants feelings, but feelings can't be bought. actions, however, can be bought. these gals have a short shelf-life. 1-2 years of prime shelf lives, another 2-3 years of normal shelf life. she knows the meaning of carpe diem (seize the day), and when 3-4 men shower her with gifts, she takes them all. hell, why not ? of course, anyone who receives gifts knows there are no free lunches. so the gal gives what the man wants (flattery, promises, sex etc ...) till she thinks approximate value of gifts is met. then a new round begins ... unfortunately, the man interprets this as never-ending money-grabbing mentality. it's not, it's simply the way of life. kids do that to parents all the time, clients to clients. friends to friends as well. what's new ? good friends are those who give without expecting to be rewarded. bad parents are those that see kids as investments. so, in other words, bad men are those that expect sexual favours in return for gifts ? haha ! very controversial !

one gal told me she has a client who wants her to be his girlfriend. she doesn't like him. but he pesters her relentlessly. she told him to pay for her school fees, he agrees. she laughs it off, says will only believe when she sees the money. next day, man asks her to follow him to hotel 81 before he gives her the money. she laughs him off and told him did he expect $5000 to buy her love ?' is her love that cheap ? then proceeded to tell him that the $5000 is only an act of goodwill she expects from him so she knows he's not a bullshitter ... well, this example is interesting because it shows that this man views love in the monetary sense. he doesn't love her, he simply wants to fuck her for a period of time he deems as value for the money spent. it will be economies of scale to him till a certain period of time when he'll just spending good money on a boring and old pussy ... then what ? the gal, on the other hand, has an inverse economies of scale. the more time and money you spend on her, the actual value of both rise.

but can you win her love if you persevere ?

sadly, the situation gets even more complicated at this stage. in a non-KTV context, is it ever easy for a normal guy to 'snare' a normal gal ? yes for some, no for others ... similarly, the same situation applies in the KTV context as well. a charming man can always charm any lady, anywhere, with or without money, and vice versa, even with money. what he can achieve, with money, however, are the tangible rewards a male-female companionship provides. however, love, feelings etc ..., well those are intangible rewards. a rule of thumb ? if you have always been a non-charmer, chances are, you won't be able to charm a gal for love in the KTV context. then again, i always believe 'never say never'. most people are conservative, even when they claim they are not. using money as a yardstick to measure an item is good and valuable. but to do likewise to a gal or man (ducky), bad connotations spring to mind (whores, ducks, cheap, no values). similarly, men and KTV gals know these. most of these gals know we don't really value them as 'normal gals'. some brush it off, some become cynical, and some quietly hope for their prince charming to 'rescue them'

lastly (bear with me, i'm finishing), why does a man go to KTV to find companionship/love ? for the same reasons why men smoke, drink, watch soccer, do things no one else understands why ... to fill a vacuum ... we need, so we search. it's normal, while in the process of searching, we overpay, like in the case of items, or companionship in a KTV club. but how do we value the intangibles ? do we feel better after a night of companionship ? do we need companionship every night ? can we afford this every night ? is this why men decide to 'BAO' a gal ? or marry a gal ?

with so many invariables, sometimes even one knows not oneself ... is it then fair, when we blame gals for simplifying matters by tying everything to $ ?

no, i'm not siding with the KTV gals, even if reading the above might lead you to that conclusion. i enjoy my single malt whiskey, with a good cigar, and a lady beside me. i can do that anywhere, in a KTV club, a hotel lounge (when i'm overseas), at my place etc ... if i do overpay these gals, it's because they spice the night up with a few good jokes/actions, or if they phrase their 'sob stories' in a way that allow me to respect their cunning. of course, i will still do my math and try my best to come up with a favourable counter-offer.

like i said before, there is no free lunch ...

[AHSPERM]

Well written, agreed with you!

[louis2002]

也就是说：

周瑜打黄盖
一个愿打
一个愿挨

[tempa.kutil]

two thumbs up (y) (y) for a well written argument from an objective observation

[brawny6666]

agreed bro, unfortunately this is all driven by the simple laws of demand and supply..unfortunately, i have seen my fair share of bad stories relating to friends..that are also good ones that came out of it..
a ktv girl that i knew opened up a small saloon with $ from her ktv days. and that was a 5 yrs ago..a good fb i might add.

[vivienwest]

It was a good read. However, it is just a deeper look into what most of us already know (no offense bro). While it is true that some people are just hopeless romantic, thus drives them to try to obtain it by any mean necessary (in this case, it is usually money), there are alot of smart people that follow the golden rule : See a whore u like -> Pay her for sex -> leave.

I wont say either of the aboves are wrong, neither the girls' reaction to your treatment, it is simply the way life works, billions of people on the planet with billions of different characteristics. To say that KTV girls are bad or to say that there are foolish men who would risk their fortune for something so frigid is just like saying u have seen the entire human race with your naked eyes.

[bloody_vlahov]

yea, some of these KTV gals are pretty iron-willed and adaptable. they have to be, they are swimming in shark-infested waters ! haha

[Smeagol]

Originally Posted by louis2002

也就是说：

周瑜打黄盖
一个愿打
一个愿挨

周郎妙计安天下，赔了夫人又折兵

[Devore]

the primary aim of the working girls are money, they don't come all the way here for affections, or love. everything is about business transactions. I honestly believe that given a choice no one wants to be in this trade.

[junior_cannibal]

When your purpose is clear, the price is right, everyone is happy.

[rich_hub]

Originally Posted by louis2002

也就是说：

周瑜打黄盖
一个愿打
一个愿挨

Essentially correct argument.
But nothing in life is entirely one way or the other.
The gals are not in there for love as the main thing. They would be quite out of this world to expect this. They spend alot of money to get into the trade, entrance fees, fashion dresses, makeup just so that us guys would buy them"
Do you honestly think that us guys would really pick a gal who looks like a cleaner to spend time with? So just to please our eyes and make themselves seem like eye candy they have to spend money. Its an investment on their part and with so much competition they may not get their returns. Remember time is money to them. If they dont get a return on you, they will get one from another guy just so they are not at the end left with a return that cannot justify their investment. We on the other hand one our return of flesh, lust fulfilled and also GFE and maybe even romance. But the transaction price quoted doesnt include GFE( for many except the smart ones who factor it in as a way of getting you to come back to them) and certainly doesnt factor in romance on the initial quote. If romance does arise later on, then a whole round of renegotiating happens again which would include undoubtedly gifts, money and all kinds of in-kind compensation to keep the relationship alive. We on the other hand will ask for undying devotion continued GFE and emotions added on to the satisfying of our lusts. We guys are not as gullible as we are made out to be. We may err on the side of correct pricing but we ourselves will do the pricing constantly over and over again..with questions like ïs she worth it all, is she taking me for a ride etc etc
So in the end it is still transactioning on our part as well as theirs. At sometimes we do really OVERPAY. But then dont we do that with the houses we buy and the stocks and shares as well? So you see it really is no different in other areas esp with women. Sometimes we overpay with the one and only on we are legally commited to.. and you who that is.... Need the point be re-empahsised?