I struggle with this question everyday....

[Rorschach]

Is there really something between us, or is she the greatest actress in the world?

This story is nothing new to most of you, guy meets PRC girl in a KTV, guy ends up liking girl.... but all of you are veterans, all of you know how complicated the circumstances can be... and how slim the possibilities that anything real can actually occur between two people in such a situation.

Is it really always the same story? Am I stupid to believe that she is different?

I just turned 30 last year and have been working in a bank for 4 years or so. Last year the financial crisis hit me particularly hard both personally and professionally, I speculated heavily in the market and lost a lot of money. Feeling down, I took to drinking and going to KTVs to unwind a little.

Not that I've never been to these places before, mind you, it's just that this time owing to the particular circumstances, I started to really get into it as it was perfect form of escapism from my woes. A dream that I was happy to fall into and not want to get out off so quickly.

The very first time I went to this joint, I noticed her from afar. She was not drop dead gorgeous, I have seen and been with prettier ones - but she was different to me at that point in time... and all this while, she has never been any different from what I first got to know her.

No stories about sick mothers, no illusions about being rescued from working in the nightclub environment.

What about money, you ask? I have spent considerable amounts of money on visiting the same joint to find her, and she has never asked me for more than what I give or hinted that she has been lacking anything. Has she ever wanted a new handphone - yes, but it has never been different from the way my ex SG-gfs have hinted they liked this perfume or that dress. I refused to buy her a phone, trying to test her, but nothing changed between us...

I have read enough of this forum to know that everyone here brands these PRC KTV girls as money grubbing, emotionally manipulative bitches. All these I know in my head, and she knows what the general impression of PRC women are like. And she knows that I know.

But one by one, my defenses have mostly crumbled down. I know that I can never fully give in and submit my heart, because I come for my daily dose of cynicism here everyday to guard myself from falling deeper.

Yet part of me truly feels something for her. She's now gone... and I miss her everyday. I think that what we had was something real, but it bugs me not to know, and I probably never will.

.... story to be continued

[colins]

Originally Posted by Rorschach

Is there really something between us, or is she the greatest actress in the world?

......

Yet part of me truly feels something for her. She's now gone... and I miss her everyday. I think that what we had was something real, but it bugs me not to know, and I probably never will.

When our mind is in search of an escape from reality, as in your case due to your lost, we readily hang on to something we take as reality. Many of us in our daily lives are not living in realism, as a matter of fact, only those who have been on the ground for a long time worrying about bread and butter issues everyday tend to be more realistic. I think in that sense, WLs are more realistic than a lot of us, simply becos their circumstance are forcing them towards that direction.

So in that context, while we see many WL of high expectation as to the money they earn, they are in fact, a more clear minded lot than we are. They have high hopes for their own future, and are willing to do whatever they can to earn it. Comparing our mind with them, we have a distinct disadvantage - they know what we want and how we try to do it, we know what they want BUT can rarely predict how they do it. So if we go in looking for escapism and they go in looking for more realism, that's it, we will lose ourselves.

To cut it short and answer your question, yes to you there is something between you and her. To her, there is something as well. But we can be very sure your 'something' is different from her 'something' and you got to be satisfied with this cos this is the only answer you can ever find out, as you are too confused to know. As to acting, the only answer is, we are all actors and actresses. Only our own intention is real. So if I know your intention and your words and body language defeats it, then you are acting. How to know the intention? Go back to the clear mind thingy.

If you still cannot find out her intention after a long time, then your question should be; am I too stupid to know or am I just lying to myself becos I NEED the answer to be something else other than the truth. The only part that is bugging you, friend, is that you still couldn't accept that she is not what she seems to be, becos 1. you dun want to accept 2. you need to believe in something sweet. Both reasons say that you are looking for a comfort zone, and her presence put you out of it, so thats why it bugs you.

Take care, the feeling will pass very soon.

[tanterry]

Bro, my advice is to make it clear to her that you will go for pay as per bonk and maybe give a small gift on her brithday as bonus if she performs exceptionally well

your quote here is the first indication of famous KC trap haha The very first time I went to this joint, I noticed her from afar. She was not drop dead gorgeous, I have seen and been with prettier ones - but she was different to me at that point in time... and all this while, she has never been any different from what I first got to know her.

[yinyang]

Originally Posted by colins

When our mind is in search of an escape from reality, as in your case due to your lost, we readily hang on to something we take as reality.
As to acting, the only answer is, we are all actors and actresses. Only our own intention is real. .
only part that is bugging you, friend, is that you still couldn't accept that she is not what she seems to be, becos 1. you dun want to acc..ept 2. you need to believe in something sweet. Both reasons say that you are looking for a comfort zone, and her presence put you out of it, so thats why it bugs you.

Good perspective Life's a stage in more ways than 1

[Hulunbeier]

Bro Colins

Wah...u very powerful leh....

I oso look at this way cause my horse said "she wanna work" on her final night and I seriously think she very focussed on what she wanted. Very very different from us seriously, even money to us is available but she wanna make that short timing to accumulate more. She does not say U want me rest, Pay me lor...

But after a session last night, buddies told me hey go Zhu Hai, the gals are better, than we may want to make that judgement. Looks like both of us (banker and me) need to upgrade and sense the env differently.

[Absolute]

Originally Posted by colins

Comparing our mind with them, we have a distinct disadvantage - they know what we want and how we try to do it, we know what they want BUT can rarely predict how they do it. So if we go in looking for escapism and they go in looking for more realism, that's it, we will lose ourselves.

Very insightful and philosophical view, colins. Enjoy seeing it from your perspective, not just the one quoted above

Just to add on to the quote above, not many clear-minded Singaporean men here know what the PRC women want. Many must have thought that the PRC women are looking for love too. If it is really for love, they would have got it in mainland China. Are you more handsome than their billion-population males? Are you more communicative than their billion-population males? They came here to earn money and remit their hard-earned money to their love ones at home.

Unfortunately many Singaporean men still believed that many of these PRC women are looking for the matured and stable males for serious relationship. I dare say that many of these PRC women will reveal to all the gullible Singaporean men that they are currently having problem with their boyfriends or husbands in China or have broken up with their lovers already. This is where the vulnerable gentle Singaporean men come in and become the "emotional ballast" of the PRC women.

Keep believing, Singaporean men, if you feel better living in dreams.

[rete700i]

Hey my dear pathetic profane, this is the Matters of the Heart forum. You having problem with your eyesight?

Originally Posted by profane

Hey dicky, this is Adult Discussions about Sex or Matters of the Heart?

[cablesnwires]

Originally Posted by colins

...

If you still cannot find out her intention after a long time, then your question should be; am I too stupid to know or am I just lying to myself becos I NEED the answer to be something else other than the truth. The only part that is bugging you, friend, is that you still couldn't accept that she is not what she seems to be, becos 1. you dun want to accept 2. you need to believe in something sweet. Both reasons say that you are looking for a comfort zone, and her presence put you out of it, so thats why it bugs you.

Take care, the feeling will pass very soon.

Bro colins, you really hit the nail in the spot. Unless you are able to deal with the reasons, you will always be bugged.

[Rorschach]

Thanks all for replying to this thread. I don't think that my situation is unique and I appreciate all the advice given - the laojiaos here probably have repeated their viewpoints countless times to others so I am thankful that people are giving this thread attention at all.

(cont'd)
She cannot be different, how could she be? She works in a nightclub, she entertains men every single night of the week. Men who are like you and I, who go to these places just wanting to have a good time. Who enjoy the company of attractive women who pour our drinks for us, light up our cigarettes, and who wrap themselves into our often roaming hands.

Maybe she isn't exactly a typical GRO, (she's one of those singers in a HFJ btw), but aren't these girls just marketing themselves differently? Meat is meat, beef is beef.... between wagyu beef and just normal beef, the fact that these girls have come to SG to work and should know what they are in for, working in a nightclub. And it comes down to the very practical reality that money and hope of a better life is exactly why they are here.

Which is why I started out getting to know her with my personal idea of, "entertain me sufficiently, make me leave the place happy, and I will tip you generously..." I thought that by using money as my shield, as my defence against any KC trap, I would be sufficiently protected from anything she can try to pull on me.

However, it didn't work very well on her. Maybe she could feel that I was being a stone cold bastard, maybe I made unflattering comments to put her down, maybe it just didn't make me a very interesting customer.

Maybe.

After about two or three weeks, I grew tired of this lack of progress with her. She seemed genuinely uninterested in sitting with me, obviously it was her job to continue entertaining me but there was no real communication between us. I felt that many times, it was just me holding her chain and while she could not escape this chain of hers, she would rather have someone else hold it.

I decided to give it a rest and give it up as a lost cause, because borrowing from that analogy, there is no point caging a bird if it does not sing for you. Girls in these types of places are easily exchangeable, are they not?

Then came the turning point. Call me stubborn or what, but she continued to fill my thoughts for the next week or so. I thought about it and realized that if I was really interested in her, I should have treated her as a bit more human instead. Perhaps I could get what I wanted from her (and at this point, it wasn't sex I was after, I just wanted to feel her positive feelings towards me) if I acted a bit more human myself.

Whether this was the right thing to do or not, I will continue in the next saga.... but to give readers an idea of what happened next, I want to say that it wasn't a 180 degree attitude change from her immediately. It took time, effort and money on my side to let her know that I was serious about generating these positive feelings between her and myself.

I probably fell somewhere along the way into this state of confusion. I still remember her kisses, often so sweet and so endearing as her body trembled like a leaf in the soft breeze, caused me to lose part of my soul. The flash of righteous anger in her eyes as I joked about how I would be going to other joints with my buddies and get other girls to keep me company.

The shrug of resignation and sadness in her voice as she accepts that I can do whatever I want outside.

"Yes, you are a Singaporean man, and I am only just a PRC girl."

[BlurWolfe]

Bro Rorschach, now its the time for you return to reality, after receiving so many consultations from senior bros.

Always remember that the one and only objective for these PRC is to make as much $$$ as possible during their time, you had supported her enough even during this economy downturn, or may be thats why she didnt open alligator mouth to demand this and that.

[slider_72]

Bro TS, what you went through is strikingly similar to what a number of us have gone through before. I am one such example.

Felt something for a WL, thought that what we had was real and when she left, I felt confused thinking that I need a closure to that episode, that I needed to know whether she felt the same way about me or was it merely great acting on her part.

After much reflection, and after a period of time, I realised that all these are merely illusory. By the word "these", I mean the supposed feeling of love you have for her, and the need to know whether she "loved" you in return.

Why do I say they are merely illusory. That is because you did not fall in love with her in the first place. You merely thought that you did. In times of stress, as you rightly pointed out, most people will look to some other distraction as a form of escapism. In your case (and for me previously as well), the distraction and escapism came in the form of a lovely PRC woman.

You set up your own comfort zone and created your own world. Retreating into this world is like Alice going into wonderland. It takes your mind away from your real world problems.

You will have to address the root problem or else you will be tormented with this issue for a period of time without any light at the end of the tunnel.

The second illusion I mentioned is the perceived need to find a closure. I struggled with that for a while in the past. One fine day it dawned upon me that whether she was really in love with me was not important to me at all. When faced with a problem, our confidence level takes a hit. By trying to get the WL to develop feelings for you, I think sub-consciously what you are trying to do is to re-validate yourself.

As a test, ask yourself this question, if she is still in Singapore, (assuming you are still single) in your heart of hearts, do you think you will take this relationship further and marry her? If you do not see marriage as a distinct possibility, so what if she is in love with you. It is no skin off your nose even if she merely regards your relationship as a monetary transaction. Nett result is this; why should you give a shit whether she was in love with you or not?

And by way of an illustration, once I smsed a PRC WL jokingly saying that all women are alike, that they love to have men go gaga over them. Her response was that it gives them a sense of achievement. While both comments were made in jest, there is a certain element of truth in it and it is applicable in your case in seeking for a closure. If you ask yourself, why do you need to know if she really fell in love with you? Is it because you invested a great deal in her and felt that you needed to "achieve" something?

While I do not think that it is wrong to have these PRC WLs as a distraction from everyday stressful living, it becomes a problem once they become an obsession. Please bear in mind, they are merely entertainment only. Do not develop any emotional attachments. I know that this is easier said than done. I am still in the process of learning how to achieve this.

[pewpew]

Imagine going to the same joint everytime with only "HER" sitting with u during her "FREE" time whereas u sitting alone while she running around yet hoping that "You" are special is what most of the bros here thought previously until we ganna hit HARD by reality.

Seeing her in the arms of other guys while u walk your way towards the gent makes your heart ache... thinking "Sigh, its alright, she have to earn money..."

Receiving her sms regularly with "have u eaten? wat r u doing? etc" makes u feel special that she cares for u...

These are the questions i keep asking myself when i m chionging until recently i met a PRC girl who doesn't talks to me abt present, abt money or abt her family and even though she knows i fool around outside, she doesn't mind as long as i give her a call like once a week...

Frankly speaking, 99% of the girls working are not worth the time n effort but if u are really lucky, the special 1% can be found if u puts in effort.

Good luck bro

[Spud_Boy]

Originally Posted by pewpew

Imagine going to the same joint everytime with only "HER" sitting with u during her "FREE" time whereas u sitting alone while she running around yet hoping that "You" are special is what most of the bros here thought previously until we ganna hit HARD by reality.

Seeing her in the arms of other guys while u walk your way towards the gent makes your heart ache... thinking "Sigh, its alright, she have to earn money..."

Receiving her sms regularly with "have u eaten? wat r u doing? etc" makes u feel special that she cares for u...

These are the questions i keep asking myself when i m chionging until recently i met a PRC girl who doesn't talks to me abt present, abt money or abt her family and even though she knows i fool around outside, she doesn't mind as long as i give her a call like once a week...

Frankly speaking, 99% of the girls working are not worth the time n effort but if u are really lucky, the special 1% can be found if u puts in effort.

Good luck bro

bro pew pew.. your words have brought enlightenment to me..

in a similar situation except mine's a VN.. time for me to keep my rationality..

thanks!

[jnlover]

Very good insights... 1 of my best buddy is also slowly but surely getting himself entangled in it... sign.

Guess I would have to learn more from the brothers here to guide him through it

[uncletoby]

fuck and forget. love and lust and two different things. If u guys think that yours is the "true love" jus do a simple test. Sms your prc gal whom u think loves u saying u have lost alot of $$$ in biz. U will than find out how true your love is.