Middle class Singaporean no more.....Sigh

[MoJoe313]

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too? :(

[tnuc]

vote wisely bro

[edfire]

We are paying a high price to stay being sillyporean.... thats how i feels :(

[AAdam]

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too? :(

Combine income > $10K and you are still complaing???? You must be kidding,sir. Either you downgrade your lifestyle or earn more than you spend. No two way about it.

[heartkorr]

combine income of >10k should be ok ma right... 9 years car, renew COE lor, who ask you to want a new car ....

[MoJoe313]

Combine income > $10K and you are still complaing???? You must be kidding,sir. Either you downgrade your lifestyle or earn more than you spend. No two way about it.

My old retired parents stay with me. They have no savings. Food, medical bills, expenses, allowances. All borne by wife and me. When you count income per person in my household, it is not alot. No lavish lifestyle....nothing of that sort. I can't kick my kids or parents out....

[heartkorr]

Do they have a flat that they can rent out since they are bunking in with you guys?

[sammyboyfor]

My old retired parents stay with me. They have no savings. Food, medical bills, expenses, allowances. All borne by wife and me. When you count income per person in my household, it is not alot. No lavish lifestyle....nothing of that sort. I can't kick my kids or parents out....

Dump them in an old folk's home in a neighboring country. It'll save you a lot of money.

[MoJoe313]

Do they have a flat that they can rent out since they are bunking in with you guys?

No. They made some foolish decisions and lost their 3 room flat. Just showed up one day at my place. Am I suay or what?

[ah rat]

Dump them in an old folk's home in a neighboring country. It'll save you a lot of money.

If you dump your parents in an old folk's home. When u yourself get old,your own kids too will dump u in an old folk's home :D

[AAdam]

Live a lifestyle of <10K, you will be all right.

[heartkorr]

No. They made some foolish decisions and lost their 3 room flat. Just showed up one day at my place. Am I suay or what?

eh, even selling the place they should still have ome money.... sp...

[wittyman]

try go legal house and bonking, dont pay high $$ for FL :D:D

[sammyboyfor]

If you dump your parents in an old folk's home. When u yourself get old,your own kids too will dump u in an old folk's home :D

1. I don't have any children.

2. I have already booked a spot in an old folk's home of my choice.

[ludwig19]

So by voting 'wisely', the cost of chilli crab will come down and i suddenly can stay in a nice condo instead of my pigsty of a 5rm flat? Haha 😛

[lasupkia]

>$10k and still can complain.
Worst of all is grumble about supporting your own parents.
你的良心被狗吃了。

[DemonicSS]

Talk to your siblings to share the costs of your parents maintenance. That will help to lessen the burden.

Next suggestion I will give you unfortunately is to bail out of this country. There is really no point being here when you are not earning sufficiently. if you cannot turn the tide, then move.

[ahpui123123]

Moral of the story is not to let your daughter volunteer in an old folks home. :D

[leakypipes]

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch to? :(

What you want in life bro? Almost 10k combined income is what some ppl dream of. My father was a single parent since 1994. Raise 3 teenage kids. 2 only got o level. Still can get married and have kids n buy own place. That's my siblings. I think their household income lower than yours.

As for me, well, let's say I went a bit further in my studies than my siblings. And I support my father by giving him $1k plus monthly plus I cover his medical costs. I also support my siblings occasionally. Not say I Hao lian, but I worked damn fucking hard to earn my money. And I'm grateful for every cent I make. Even got money to bonk.

Sometimes its about accepting what your reality is. If you don't like it, then you have to know what you have to do to change it, and do it.

[MoJoe313]

>$10k and still can complain.
Worst of all is grumble about supporting your own parents.
你的良心被狗吃了。

I think you are taking this the wrong way.

[MoJoe313]

What you want in life bro? Almost 10k combined income is what some ppl dream of. My father was a single parent since 1994. Raise 3 teenage kids. 2 only got o level. Still can get married and have kids n buy own place. That's my siblings. I think their household income lower than yours.

As for me, well, let's say I went a bit further in my studies than my siblings. And I support my father by giving him $1k plus monthly plus I cover his medical costs. I also support my siblings occasionally. Not say I Hao lian, but I worked damn fucking hard to earn my money. And I'm grateful for every cent I make. Even got money to bonk.

Sometimes its about accepting what your reality is. If you don't like it, then you have to know what you have to do to change it, and do it.

Imho, its not the income earned. Its the expenditure. Per person per household. I just wondered if I am the only one vexed with rising costs. Giving to parents done long time ago. Now its full scale living with me. Btw, its more than $1k a month. Add on the kids. Can be quite a strain. You have kids, bro?

[justdifferent]

Imho, its not the income earned. Its the expenditure. Per person per household. I just wondered if I am the only one vexed with rising costs. Giving to parents done long time ago. Now its full scale living with me. Btw, its more than $1k a month. Add on the kids. Can be quite a strain. You have kids, bro?

Well, what I feel is that the generation nowadays get used to living a luxurious lifestyle from the moment they graduate. (and yes this is my generation)

I have friends whom, upon graduation got scouted and have a starting pay of about 7k a month. Back in uni, all were struggling on parent's allowance aside from those who were part-timing while they were studying. All of a sudden, after graduation, 7k a month. I wouldn't say the work is easy, but the huge jump from allowance that might not even be 1k a month to 7k seems a bit too much.

'Fast come, fast go'. My friend who was in such a situation started living the high life. He also bought a 3 series, which till now he is paying through his teeth for.

In the end, it's all about the kind of lifestyle you want to live. Not too long ago he was fine with having a casual dinner at maxwell, nowadays he tells me that we should eat at somewhere 'proper' like Lolla's or Esquina's and the like. I recently found out that he has been chasing credit card bills and just barely managing to settle his bills from month-to-month.

7k a month, even after deducting cpf, plus he is single and does not have to support his parents. You could say this guy is crazy, but having been in his shoes at some point of time, I know how easy it is to spend more than 5k a month just by drinking, eating a nice places, etc.

What it is about is managing expectations and living within your means. Is showing off really that important? Is having a car a necessity? My closest buddy recently got a bonus of more than 1 year. He earns about 6k a month probably. His bonus alone is coming close to 100k. Yet when we were heading to buy watches together the other day, he puts in a lot of thought into something that is 3k+. While he is not a miser, he knows how to appropriate money properly. To him, it would be more worth it to invest even that 3k into something which gives him returns, rather than having a physical object that is used more for showing off than for telling time.

The 2 stories that I've shared are at complete ends of the spectrum.

I do not have children, neither am I married. My sister, however, is married and has 3 kids. Therefore, I am well aware of the costs involved in raising kids and supporting parents. I have to say that it is really not easy. However, by living within your means, I don't think it is impossible. It is not even difficult, it's just about your lifestyle choices.

Have you actually budgeted out your expenditure on paper? Have you looked at ways in which you could reduce your expenditure in areas that you might be spending too much on? If your job does not need a car, then why do you need it? Having young kids and old parents is not really an excuse for a car, it is a luxury and we both know it.

You claim to be struggling with living expenses, yet when you want to replace your car, you are looking at korean cars that are >100k.. first hand? the first few years have the greatest depreciation, are you sure that you can comfortably tank this depreciation?

Doesn't this ring some warning bells about the lifestyle you want? You are someone who is in a middle-income family, but you want to live a mid-high income lifestyle.

I know it gets frustrating when costs of living are high, and you constantly need to pay bills, expenditure for your children, etc. etc. But have you taken time out to do some proper budgeting?

Just one example is your car. Ask yourself if you really need it. If you do, by all means. If you know that deep down inside you don't but you want to, then there you have your answer. I have my own car as well and I might not have the right to chastise you on this subject, but we are different in the sense that I don't have to provide for my family.

I come from a family who is financially ok, and while I do give my parents money every month, I do not have any other commitments. Based on what I earn and what I need to spend, I calculated that it is a luxury that I can afford. Mine is also at the 9 year mark, and I'm considering if I should get another one next year or give it up completely. Granted, I don't drive that often. I don't like to drive to work as parking is a bitch at my workplace, the MRT is 3 stops away and the time to get to office is the same regardless of whether I drive or take the train. However, if I drive I need to pay for seasonal parking, petrol, etc.

Some of my colleagues say that I am crazy to own a car and not drive it work. I just don't see the point - unless I want to show off? Then again, whats the point of showing off a normal jap car? And the people who are impressed by this, are they really people I wanna associate myself with?

But let me wrap up by going back to the point. I understand that you have several members of your family to provide for.. which makes that 10k seem measly. Have you considered that you need to downgrade your lifestyle slightly? If not, you would be living paycheck-to-paycheck and that's not a good idea. Talk to your family and tell them that although you guys do earn a decent income, there are many people you have to take care of in the family, and therefore you need to cut down on expenses and lifestyle to maintain.

Live a life which is within your means, with cash leftover so that you can invest it. Even if it means eating at hawker centres and taking public transport, it is not that bad a thing isn't it? Perhaps you expect to live a more comfortable life with the money you earn. However if that's not a possibility because of your family, your flesh and blood, then so be it. Suck it up, lower your expenses and invest whatever you can. I believe at some point of time you will not just be chasing the next month's salary.

Good luck to you.

[Showmeyourmoney]

So by voting 'wisely', the cost of chilli crab will come down and i suddenly can stay in a nice condo instead of my pigsty of a 5rm flat? Haha 😛

No I won't. But u do wan a better life for other next generation (ur kids) don't ya?

[WhoIsDat]

What you want in life bro? Almost 10k combined income is what some ppl dream of. My father was a single parent since 1994. Raise 3 teenage kids. 2 only got o level. Still can get married and have kids n buy own place. That's my siblings. I think their household income lower than yours.

As for me, well, let's say I went a bit further in my studies than my siblings. And I support my father by giving him $1k plus monthly plus I cover his medical costs. I also support my siblings occasionally. Not say I Hao lian, but I worked damn fucking hard to earn my money. And I'm grateful for every cent I make. Even got money to bonk.

Sometimes its about accepting what your reality is. If you don't like it, then you have to know what you have to do to change it, and do it.

Well said bro. Alot of Singaporeans keeps complaining about what they do not have or yearn to have. A car, a bigger flat, Chilli Crab etc, however they fail to see what they have in the first place.

Like what Jordan Belfort used to say " The only thing that stops us from getting the things that we want, are the bullshit reasons we give ourselves"

If u don't like something, change it. Earn more money. Open up a business, dunno how, ask people who have business. Just my 2 cents worth

[Edisonchan]

TS.... I totally understand your situation..... Me too is facing problem like u and trying hard to improve my lifestyle.

Ppl here dun really understand what oversea (1st world country) countries can offer when we are earning the same amount of money here & there, and they are here trying to lecture you. I'm preparing to shift out of Sg with my family, and let saints here continue working freaking hard to earn more money trying to catch up with garment increasing living standard..... it insane and you will end up losing quality time with your family, which I think they dun care.

If I drive, it took me 15-20mins to reach my office but it will take me 2 hours when i'm not driving thus taking public transport.... :( Going out taking bus & MRT with old parents & small kids..... let the saints here try out and then comment, but to me I think car is a need. Mine is also 9 yrs +, we are planning to rent rather than buy after 2016. What I can say is we have been deprive from a lot of things as a Singaporean from LKY time to current LSL, I no longer feel privilege as a citizen here but have to give way to rich foreigners in my own soil.

[deceptive99]

I think its all about tweaking your lifestyle to how much you earn.

Live life humbly.

[Yoonachio]

TS, your combined income is not really your "income". The amount u save is.

Try to list down your expenses and see what can be cut down, like weekly fine dining to monthly, entertainment cost, change to 2nd hand car etc...

If you spend 9k per month, sure you cant save money.

[godsfury]

Voting WP will make your life better? U mean they duwan u pay taxes? Kick out ft? Increase our salaries? Everyone will get a car? No erp? Lolol

[MoJoe313]

Well, what I feel is that the generation nowadays get used to living a luxurious lifestyle from the moment they graduate. (and yes this is my generation)

I have friends whom, upon graduation got scouted and have a starting pay of about 7k a month. Back in uni, all were struggling on parent's allowance aside from those who were part-timing while they were studying. All of a sudden, after graduation, 7k a month. I wouldn't say the work is easy, but the huge jump from allowance that might not even be 1k a month to 7k seems a bit too much.

'Fast come, fast go'. My friend who was in such a situation started living the high life. He also bought a 3 series, which till now he is paying through his teeth for.

In the end, it's all about the kind of lifestyle you want to live. Not too long ago he was fine with having a casual dinner at maxwell, nowadays he tells me that we should eat at somewhere 'proper' like Lolla's or Esquina's and the like. I recently found out that he has been chasing credit card bills and just barely managing to settle his bills from month-to-month.

7k a month, even after deducting cpf, plus he is single and does not have to support his parents. You could say this guy is crazy, but having been in his shoes at some point of time, I know how easy it is to spend more than 5k a month just by drinking, eating a nice places, etc.

What it is about is managing expectations and living within your means. Is showing off really that important? Is having a car a necessity? My closest buddy recently got a bonus of more than 1 year. He earns about 6k a month probably. His bonus alone is coming close to 100k. Yet when we were heading to buy watches together the other day, he puts in a lot of thought into something that is 3k+. While he is not a miser, he knows how to appropriate money properly. To him, it would be more worth it to invest even that 3k into something which gives him returns, rather than having a physical object that is used more for showing off than for telling time.

The 2 stories that I've shared are at complete ends of the spectrum.

I do not have children, neither am I married. My sister, however, is married and has 3 kids. Therefore, I am well aware of the costs involved in raising kids and supporting parents. I have to say that it is really not easy. However, by living within your means, I don't think it is impossible. It is not even difficult, it's just about your lifestyle choices.

Have you actually budgeted out your expenditure on paper? Have you looked at ways in which you could reduce your expenditure in areas that you might be spending too much on? If your job does not need a car, then why do you need it? Having young kids and old parents is not really an excuse for a car, it is a luxury and we both know it.

You claim to be struggling with living expenses, yet when you want to replace your car, you are looking at korean cars that are >100k.. first hand? the first few years have the greatest depreciation, are you sure that you can comfortably tank this depreciation?

Doesn't this ring some warning bells about the lifestyle you want? You are someone who is in a middle-income family, but you want to live a mid-high income lifestyle.

I know it gets frustrating when costs of living are high, and you constantly need to pay bills, expenditure for your children, etc. etc. But have you taken time out to do some proper budgeting?

Just one example is your car. Ask yourself if you really need it. If you do, by all means. If you know that deep down inside you don't but you want to, then there you have your answer. I have my own car as well and I might not have the right to chastise you on this subject, but we are different in the sense that I don't have to provide for my family.

I come from a family who is financially ok, and while I do give my parents money every month, I do not have any other commitments. Based on what I earn and what I need to spend, I calculated that it is a luxury that I can afford. Mine is also at the 9 year mark, and I'm considering if I should get another one next year or give it up completely. Granted, I don't drive that often. I don't like to drive to work as parking is a bitch at my workplace, the MRT is 3 stops away and the time to get to office is the same regardless of whether I drive or take the train. However, if I drive I need to pay for seasonal parking, petrol, etc.

Some of my colleagues say that I am crazy to own a car and not drive it work. I just don't see the point - unless I want to show off? Then again, whats the point of showing off a normal jap car? And the people who are impressed by this, are they really people I wanna associate myself with?

But let me wrap up by going back to the point. I understand that you have several members of your family to provide for.. which makes that 10k seem measly. Have you considered that you need to downgrade your lifestyle slightly? If not, you would be living paycheck-to-paycheck and that's not a good idea. Talk to your family and tell them that although you guys do earn a decent income, there are many people you have to take care of in the family, and therefore you need to cut down on expenses and lifestyle to maintain.

Live a life which is within your means, with cash leftover so that you can invest it. Even if it means eating at hawker centres and taking public transport, it is not that bad a thing isn't it? Perhaps you expect to live a more comfortable life with the money you earn. However if that's not a possibility because of your family, your flesh and blood, then so be it. Suck it up, lower your expenses and invest whatever you can. I believe at some point of time you will not just be chasing the next month's salary.

Good luck to you.

Bro, thanks for taking the time to write. Enjoyed your counsel. A few things. I need a car for both work and family. I tried dragging 3 young kids in strollers along MRTs. Really quite un-doable. Those with a child will understand. Try 3. When you have kids, you may understand. Cars become a need, not a want. My parents are old. I want to bring them out once in a while. Plus the frequent trips to the hospital. Have you tried pushing a wheel chair bound person around in public transport? You may, one day. :)

Many mistake my post. My laments are about being pushed off the middle class. Not about going into abject poverty. Of course I know what to cut should it reach such a stage. The point I was making is whereas once upon a time (not too long ago) I could afford some things, now I find them out of reach. Come on, be fair. Not too long ago, it was common sightings to see people enjoying an occasional chilli crab at a kopi tiam. Now, I seldom see it.

I have yet to hear from bros with kids and elderly parents. Views please?

[freezetheDB]

its about spending within your means i guess
no money dont chiong

for me i even cut down on my favourite massages, sometimes money earn so hard, rather buy something for my wifey, or my parents.

[MoJoe313]

TS.... I totally understand your situation..... Me too is facing problem like u and trying hard to improve my lifestyle.

Ppl here dun really understand what oversea (1st world country) countries can offer when we are earning the same amount of money here & there, and they are here trying to lecture you. I'm preparing to shift out of Sg with my family, and let saints here continue working freaking hard to earn more money trying to catch up with garment increasing living standard..... it insane and you will end up losing quality time with your family, which I think they dun care.

If I drive, it took me 15-20mins to reach my office but it will take me 2 hours when i'm not driving thus taking public transport.... :( Going out taking bus & MRT with old parents & small kids..... let the saints here try out and then comment, but to me I think car is a need. Mine is also 9 yrs +, we are planning to rent rather than buy after 2016. What I can say is we have been deprive from a lot of things as a Singaporean from LKY time to current LSL, I no longer feel privilege as a citizen here but have to give way to rich foreigners in my own soil.

Finally!! A bro who understands! We are in the same situation, pal. Kids, elderly parents, rapidly escalating costs. Yea, a lot changed since we transited leadership. Something stinks :confused:

[DemonicSS]

[QUOTE= Many mistake my post. My laments are about being pushed off the middle class. Not about going into abject poverty. Of course I know what to cut should it reach such a stage. The point I was making is whereas once upon a time (not too long ago) I could afford some things, now I find them out of reach. Come on, be fair. Not too long ago, it was common sightings to see people enjoying an occasional chilli crab at a kopi tiam. Now, I seldom see it.

I have yet to hear from bros with kids and elderly parents. Views please?[/QUOTE]

True, I believe in a way I mis read your thread too in a way, but I believe the fault is ours and not yours.

It is not about the cutting the lifestyle, it is about wanting to just maintain yours as before and that you are unable so because of the costs of living in SG.

It is unfortunate, and I do not think SG is going to change in any way even if you vote the opp in, the die has already been cast. I support bro edison in leaving the country. After rereading, I would recommend it even more for you to leave. I will be too as well once my stuff here is settled.

[*FiReWoRkS*]

I guess TS started this as more of a discussion thread rather than a personal complaining thread so let's discuss this very real topic objectively rather than putting people down yah.

I dont have a kid yet but will be getting married and receiving the key to my flat soon. I too drive a 9 year old car and am seriously considering going carless when my current one is up for scrap.

Getting "squeezed" is not a sudden phenomenon and neither is it peculiar only to SG. Other developed countries that so called provide a better life usually will require you to live with a higher tax rate, possibly worser crime rate, more polluted environment and a discriminating/racist society even to those people who are born and bred in their country but are just unluckily of a different skin colour.

It does get very frustrating when all we want is just to improve our lifes slightly from year to year or at least just to maintain our current lifestyle yet this simple life dream is slowly slipping away. Is it really too much just to yearn for a modest progressive lifestyle improvement? I dont need a conti car, just a regular cat A japanese or korean car will do but even those in the 2nd hand market will cost a bomb. I can eat out at restaurants only 2 times during the weekend but everywhere is getting more and more exp. I can dont use Dove, Panthene, Dynamo or eat Hagen Daz ice creams and only use house brands and eat Walls ice creams but yet have anyone of you all seen how much your grocery bills have ballooned over the past years?

We spent 2 years for NS plus countless ICTs, RTs, IPPTs and all we see around are foreigners flocking to our island surpressing our wages and/or fighting for the jobs and positions that we tried to work so hard for. I believe most SGs are not xenophobic by nature for I can see around a lot of us with many good foreign friends, plus it is not their fault that they were able to come to SG so easily because it's the Gov who facilitated all that!

If you know we have a small and shrinking population should you not have invested and focus heavily on good machinery and work processes in the first place in order to compensate for the shortfall in human capital? Why do this only recently and in your eagerness not to lose more votes you pushed this productivity scheme so furiously that countless honest but small business owners had no choice but to go bust which ironically was what they switched to do in the first place in order to try to improve their lifes like what we were discussing?!

Yes its good to be pragmatic but do we have to go to such extreme that we lose all sentience? We are human afterall, we need to feel happy and connected to our country and fellow citizens. Whats the use of being so pragmatic when we have effectively become robots in flesh? Such a high level of pragmatism that we are like robots being brain-washed and programmed with well scripted AI programming since young. I dont mind having like 20-30% foreigners in our land in order to have a healthy diverse mix of populace and also to remain open to talents but 40%? 50%?! Who knows in reality it might even be 60% or higher since all these "official" numbers are all calculated by them. I want to feel patriotic when defending my nation when bullets are flying at me at the front line but when I turn around the faces I see are those of PRCs, Malaysians, Pinoys, Bangala, India ABNNs, Indo, Viets, Ang Mos etc???!!! Laying my life for these people who pack the MRTs, fight for jobs with me, surpress my wages, litter indiscriminately in my once clean country, do not give up seats on public transport for my grandmother, do not need to pay any application fee when applying for PR yet we have to pay $10 each time when applying for HDB???

At the end of the day - if you cant beat them then join them or quit. Either we accept this reality and lower our expectations or choose to slog our lifes away in order to earn that extra few cents every year in order to achieve that little bit of added luxuries we yearn for. Or pack up and go.

Period.

[MoJoe313]

Fireworks,
Your post is so.....how does one say it..... supercalifragilisticexpialidocious that I read it a few times. Up you my humble 2 points. :)

[Pockypig]

Some bro misunderstand TS or they didn't bother to finish reading his post. Jumped in n gave TS a headshot straight away. Sigh.

[MoJoe313]

It is not about the cutting the lifestyle, it is about wanting to just maintain yours as before and that you are unable so because of the costs of living in SG.


Bingo, bro :)

[jacky43]

Again this is just me. The people in the house bring in FT inorder to win bec thats the way it is. No body dare to break out of the glass window like Japan who will not give IC even to white man who marry into the country.

Actually blanglahs after working here for ten years, blue IC will be offer no bones about it. Then we have white people visiting the old man memorial hall to know history of my country. They are holding local IC.

Lets talk about bread and butter issues. We are seeing high % in PMET retrenchment in 2014. Thats text book my friends bec Otelli had out of the book the one where teachers cant teach. However she used indirect speech. Those PMET were expats as well as PR not so many born locals. Past 15 years this group of people screw up the company bec they are here for fun. The first matter on the table is a place to stay, next blue IC pink one is better. If all possible bring in their friends and family. Fucking hell!

Fear not thats what i told mine colleague who quit today. He is ok to my std not so to my Manager. I advice him take note at the pte sectors who are hiring more born locals such as him.

It is not the $ that matters to a company. It is he who had to area cleaning after the FT and PR mess up. Work harder speak to his future Managers that Rome was never build in a day, same with this red dot. The process is long and seems difficult. Trust me every body it is not we need patient.

Good luck in higher paying jobs.

[du76ke]

TS..
I'm married with 3 kids (1 in Secondary, 1 in Primary, 1 in kindergarten)
My monthly combined salary with wife is ard 5K. Both my parents staying with me in a 5rm flat.

I don't drive so every family outing is definitely going public.
I used to own a car but few yrs back sold off to have more cash in hand. I agree with u that standard of living keep going up so we have to spend what we have. Earn 5k & spend 4k, not earn 5k & spend 5.1k.

Understand ur car going to expire soon. If u really need a car for work can consider a second hand car instead of a new one.

And as for our parents, cherish them when they are still around. When we are young, did they find us too troublesome and want to throw us away??

At the end of day is how we spend what we have.

Juz my 2cents.

[MaoSanWang]

Bros,
Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too? :(

I feel you man...
And if your parents have no medical ins or not on civil servant pension scheme, good luck to you liao.
Their medical cost can potentially wipe u out. :(

You lucky got Pioneer Generation medical subsidy this year.
Can take the savings go legal houses liao. :p

[kraam]

combined over 10k still kaopeh so much.

u talk like u think u the biggest, worst off fucker in whole of SG? u come here tell your story in SBF, u think got no bros here worse off than u or earn lesser than u, live a much worse off life than u?

guess u never considered that possibility, because u're one selfish fucker.

[DemonicSS]

combined over 10k still kaopeh so much.

u talk like u think u the biggest, worst off fucker in whole of SG? u come here tell your story in SBF, u think got no bros here worse off than u or earn lesser than u, live a much worse off life than u?

guess u never considered that possibility, because u're one selfish fucker.

Dude, what the ts is talking about is not about the amount of money he is earning, but rather his only wish is that his lifestyle can be maintained. A govt's duty is to improve the lives of others, if they cannot, at least maintain the standard as is across all segments of society - and not degrade it. But our current system is doing totally opposite, causing the segments to change greatly, making the rich richer, the middle and poor poorer.

So Kraam, dun be so quick to mouth off who is worse off economically. that wasn't the topic here. If you wish, create another thread telling us how affected are you in your income group instead. We are all in the same boat afterall.

[lasupkia]

I think you are taking this the wrong way.

Let's see how u will feel when yr combined income lessen by a zero.
Then u will know how fucking blessed you were.

[godsfury]

So.. U talk abt moving to another country to stay? So that means u will become an ft there? Where do u wanna stay? U think that living in australia is cheaper? They willingly offer u high paying jobs w no taxes? Medical is free? Lol. The grass always seems greener at the other side till u really live there and find out.

[Bangster]

rat race?
why get tangled up in the rat race?

10k per month is no easy feat for a lot of us...including me.

But I also reckoned along the way to such a combined income figure, you would have accumulate higher tastes for a lot of things. Basically, a relatively lavish lifestyle.

Like many of the bros here advised, I would say live within your means. The planet will still keep turning whether you like the idea of FTs being here or not and grocery costs increasing like crazy.

There are seriously many things you can be doing to survive, or to improve your lifestyle without sacrificing what you have now. And I mean legal things. Singapore is a land of opportunity. Try living in some other countries. It's not even possible to start thinking about marriage and buying a place with our standard of living here.

It's not the best place on Earth here. But would you trade it for somewhere else?

Some would. Some wouldn't.
Your call, bro.

[MoJoe313]

Let's see how u will feel when yr combined income lessen by a zero.
Then u will know how fucking blessed you were.

For the benefit of those who are poor in maths and rich in jealousy, a single person earning $3,000 a month is TWO TIMES RICHER than two people earning $10,000 for a family of 7 ($10,000/7 = $1,428)

Those who think children consume less may be surprise to know that a 2 year old child will not walk to the kitchen to pour hot water into her milk bottle, shake it with Dumex and drink. Someone has to do it for her. When both parents can't do it because they have to work, these become costs. I can eat chap chai rice but I doubt a 2 year old child can. Google milk powder price and you will know what I mean.

I can understand there will be individuals who survive on less than $1,428 a month but one cannot say $1,428 a month per person is extravagant because there are indeed many singles who earn more than $3,000 a month for himself/herself.

In any case, my thread is about the rapidly rising cost of living. I guess some are too fixated on money and envy to notice.

[Intltuk]

TS, u seemed like a person who is so spoon fed that u're looking at the gov when things don't go ur way and takes credit when u good and well; seems like u're looking at the glass as half empty rather than 1/2 full. Those who is earning 2.0k wish he are earning 5.0k and those who are earning wish they were earning 10k. It is a neverending story as every person would like to improve/sustain their lifestyle.

I agree that cost of living of S'pore is not low but then again, which 1st world country isn't?? Cars and housing are cheap in US......but everyday services like plumbers, eletricians are sky high.....thus, a lot of Americans DIY their homes, can u? Maids are out of the question...they hire part time nanny if they need to go out for a few hrs and leave the kids home. Their cars are a necessity as the public transport is lacking; they drive everywhere as most of the shops are not within walking distance...nor are there widespread of walkways for them to walk! U pay a high income tax to sustain the wars US is involve in, the welfare scheme, etc.

Every country has their pros and cons and inflation is part and parcel of tat. Thus, some tries to better their life thru increasing their earnings.....others learn to live within their means and appreciate what they've.

So, stop being so whiny and take responsibility for ur life and family. Go and find ways to earn more to sustain/improve ur lifestyle or, as some bros suggested......move.....afterall u can `afford' it.

[ilikeoldchangke]

Cost of living affects everyone.

Last time i buy curry puff only 90 cents. Still got 70 cents yam pie. Now no longer have this kind of pricing liao at old chang kee :D


Coffee at Ya kun and toast box 1.80 1 small cup.

Prices go up at a faster rate than my boss increase my pay, so in the end no choice i got to cut down on junk food and high crass kopi. :D





Jokes aside.



I think what TS is trying to say is even with a decent household income, with the rising cost these days, your disposable income is getting lower.

Many years back, with the same amount, you can definitely have a comfortable lifestyle. No need to think twice about splurging once in a while on good food.




No choice la, prices will still go up. Make some changes to your lifestyle.

Ditch the car. Take cab definitely much cheaper.

[lasupkia]

For the benefit of those who are poor in maths and rich in jealousy, a single person earning $3,000 a month is TWO TIMES RICHER than two people earning $10,000 for a family of 7 ($10,000/7 = $1,428)

Those who think children consume less may be surprise to know that a 2 year old child will not walk to the kitchen to pour hot water into her milk bottle, shake it with Dumex and drink. Someone has to do it for her. When both parents can't do it because they have to work, these become costs. I can eat chap chai rice but I doubt a 2 year old child can. Google milk powder price and you will know what I mean.

I can understand there will be individuals who survive on less than $1,428 a month but one cannot say $1,428 a month per person is extravagant because there are indeed many singles who earn more than $3,000 a month for himself/herself.

In any case, my thread is about the rapidly rising cost of living. I guess some are too fixated on money and envy to notice.Yeah my maths is not as good as you. $10k for 7 is a worse situation than my only $2k for 3. I also have a 2+ year old who can't make her own milk. My little one don't need any fancy gadgets like ipads. She is twice as happy running around the playground (FREE).
Actually what pissed most of us off about you is the way you put the blame of not being able to eat at fancy restaurants more often because your parents using up your money.
Be creative about ways to enjoy your lives without spending too much. Look at the news of PMETs losing their jobs. Most are saddled with heavy debts to service.

I had a friend in this situation who thought of killing himself because of the stress he faced. But thankfully he bite the bullet. Didn't care how people looked at him and talk behind his back. Sold off all the items weighing him down financially moved to a small rental flat for his family of 5. Now at least some joy coming back to him as he pull thru this tough time.

[Intltuk]

Cost of living affects everyone.

I think what TS is trying to say is even with a decent household income, with the rising cost these days, your disposable income is getting lower.


I think most of us understand where TS is coming from. The thing here is; in which country, there is no inflation; in which country, income raises > inflation if u sit and whine only?

[MoJoe313]

TS, u seemed like a person who is so spoon fed that u're looking at the gov when things don't go ur way and takes credit when u good and well;

I like the way you infer. NO WHERE have I written "I am looking at the gov when things dont go my way". In fact, I have not written anything political or partisan. Check it yourself. Isn't this a forum where things are discussed? Ok, I got bored of the usual sex talk and voiced an opinion for a change. Also cannot? Wow! You sound like the PAP internet brigade rushing to put out a fire. Btw, I am politically neutral .....but I just might change that. Didnt bother reading the rest of your comments. Hope you don't mind.:eek:

[MoJoe313]

Actually what pissed most of us off about you is the way you put the blame of not being able to eat at fancy restaurants more often because your parents using up your money.


If you really want to know, I do casual talk like crabs, COE and simple expenses so as to not boast. You want hard truths?

Here's a surprise tip then. Your parents will never be Peter Pan. They all age.

Which old folk you know will not have cancer, diabetes, high blood, heart ailments, dementia or immobility. When you are at that age, pick one. Or pick all. Each time one goes in for Glioblastoma multiforme treatment, its $60,000 per cycle (surgeon $25k, chemo $15k, ward & ancillaries $20k). Do it an average of 2 rounds only, its $120,000 a parent. When both parents go in, your eyes will pop at the costs. That's just cancer alone. Try getting an assortment.

You want harsh truths? When that happens, you have no choice but to ask yourself Do you sell your home, so that your parent can live another 3 years. Go through that, then come teach me about filial piety. I was hoping to keep quiet about it......but since you asked....there you go.

[Orchinno]

For the benefit of those who are poor in maths and rich in jealousy, a single person earning $3,000 a month is TWO TIMES RICHER than two people earning $10,000 for a family of 7 ($10,000/7 = $1,428)

I can understand there will be individuals who survive on less than $1,428 a month but one cannot say $1,428 a month per person is extravagant because there are indeed many singles who earn more than $3,000 a month for himself/herself.

In any case, my thread is about the rapidly rising cost of living. I guess some are too fixated on money and envy to notice.

Hi TS,

Sorry, it seems like you are trying to get sympathy here but not being totally upfront with your information.

Right on top, you mentioned that your household total income is provide by 2 persons at 10K per month. Then at the bottom, you stated that your parents are working and thus not able to help out with activities around the house.

You approach to calculating available income per person seems reasonable at surface, by is a false mask. You cannot divide the income by 7 and claim that it is worse off than another family with 2 members earning 3K.

There is something call economy of scale. A two person family fixed cost may be higher than a 7 family fixed cost, example utilities. Excluding the variable components, both families have to pay 30 dollars monthly regardless of number of users. Or conservancy charges which are tied to housing unit and not number of members in the housing.

Let's try to do a cost estimate (without knowing where you live and your expenditure patterns) base on the info you are willing to reveal so far.

Food expense monthly : 800 dollars (This is the number I live by with 1 maid, 3 kids, 2 parents, so my household differs not from yours)
Utilities : 350 dollars
Conservancy charges and parking : 200 dollars (assuming HDB 5 room/exec)
Childcare for 3 kids ? : 2400 dollars (800 per pax at neighbour childcare)
Milk powder for 3 kids ? : 200 dollars (65 per tin, 1 tin 1 month per kid)
Your wife and you daily expense : 400 dollars (10 per lunch for 20 days)
Telecom charges : 150 (mid-tier phone plans, cable TV and internet)
the total so far : 4,700 dollars

Given your stated income of 10K, less the CPF, both of you probably bringing in home 8K.

That leave you disposable income of 3300 dollars.

From there you start to draw down the luxuries :
- petrol and servicing 500 dollars ( 400 petrol, 100 contribute to car maintenance fund)
- eating out 210 per meal (30 dollars per pax) 4 weekends ? : 840 dollars

This is the income table per month by age cohort to help you understand better where you are in the scheme of things.
http://postimg.org/image/a8awlaxhz/

[Intltuk]

Check it yourself. Isn't this a forum where things are discussed? Ok, I got bored of the usual sex talk and voiced an opinion for a change. Also cannot? Wow! You sound like the PAP internet brigade rushing to put out a fire. Btw, I am politically neutral .....but I just might change that. Didnt bother reading the rest of your comments. Hope you don't mind.:eek:

U're right, this is a forum for discussion :D. Unfortunately, ur writeups, to me, seems more like whining as u chose to put ur situation as an example and we know for a fact that in most countries inflation has always been a concern for all.

I believe ur writeup get to fellow bros here as u are in a good spot...not great but good, yet u.....sighzzzz.

Anyway, ea is entitled to their opinion since this is a discussion ;). Btw, not meant to offend anyone...do skip my write up if u feel offended.Tks.

[parrotkid]

I believe what TS is trying to say is that the purchasing power is being eroded when inflation and commitments rises faster than income.

[Hokkienkia]

10k buay kow?

Mai niam liao, wu jing zuay lang combined 5k ma bo ah, lagi jialat.

le wu 10k si bei heng leow. :cool:

[MoJoe313]

ur writeups, to me, seems more like whining as u chose to put ur situation as an example and we know for a fact that in most countries inflation has always been a concern for all.


I am educated. I studied economics. I understand inflation. 5 years ago, crab was $32 per kg. Today its $65 per kg. It is a 100% increase. It is not called Inflation. It is called Hyper Inflation. Perhaps you haven't lived here since birth so you do not notice.

I used crab as an example. I do not have to eat crab (and act rich). This is Singapore. We are famous for Chilli _____. So its price should be common knowledge. Seriously? Must I explain every detail?

[clapton]

Removed.

!!

[atee]

In Spore one mustnt get sick. Especially cronic sickness. Dont say 10k. 20k also not able to cover medical expenses if the illness prolongs. U cant even get subsidies cos of your "high" mthly income. Ti Ni Nge Kai (hainanese)

[MoJoe313]

10k buay kow?

Mai niam liao, wu jing zuay lang combined 5k ma bo ah, lagi jialat.

le wu 10k si bei heng leow. :cool:

Ah hia, hmmm si niam. Si see ay du lan. Zho lai zho ki buay kow. Wa wu sar ay kia. Neng ay lau lang. Lon zhong mi kia see ay kwee. Le ay min pek bo?

[EnolaGay]

While some of us are able to see and feel where you are coming from, maybe you can be thankful that there are a whole lot of people who are in a worse off situation than you and would love to be in your shoes instead.

From time to time i volunteer my time at some welfare home and i can tell you that you should be very grateful for what you have. Maybe you can give some of your time to help out then you will know how lucky you are.

Whilst you worry about the frequency of chilli crabs you can enjoy, there are many people who are wondering when will their next meal be.

Be contented with what you and be thankful.

[ludwig19]

Think at the end of the day, some will understand your situation and some will not. Guess to me, shit happens. Some families with 10k/mth live comfortably while some with 5k/mth struggle, while vice versa some families struggle on 10k/mth and the 5k/mth families are fine. High income families may hv many medical problems and not as high income families may be relatively healthy. Not trying to say that you are suay or anything like that, guess just got to make do with what we are dealt with.

[Hokkienkia]

Lao hia, wa eh bing pek.

Sim si sia lang zai si bo? Mia zai beh bio hiong hiong tan lo ke! Hee bang tai kay ho seh ho seh.

[Intltuk]

I am educated. I studied economics. I understand inflation. 5 years ago, crab was $32 per kg. Today its $65 per kg. It is a 100% increase. It is not called Inflation. It is called Hyper Inflation. Perhaps you haven't lived here since birth so you do not notice.

I used crab as an example. I do not have to eat crab (and act rich). This is Singapore. We are famous for Chilli _____. So its price should be common knowledge. Seriously? Must I explain every detail?
Lolz......have a good discussion with fellow bros;).

[MoJoe313]

Hi TS,

Sorry, it seems like you are trying to get sympathy here but not being totally upfront with your information.

There is something call economy of scale. A two person family fixed cost may be higher than a 7 family fixed cost, example utilities. Excluding the variable components, both families have to pay 30 dollars monthly regardless of number of users. Or conservancy charges which are tied to housing unit and not number of members in the housing.

Let's try to do a cost estimate (without knowing where you live and your expenditure patterns) base on the info you are willing to reveal so far.

Food expense monthly : 800 dollars (This is the number I live by with 1 maid, 3 kids, 2 parents, so my household differs not from yours)
Utilities : 350 dollars
Conservancy charges and parking : 200 dollars (assuming HDB 5 room/exec)
Childcare for 3 kids ? : 2400 dollars (800 per pax at neighbour childcare)
Milk powder for 3 kids ? : 200 dollars (65 per tin, 1 tin 1 month per kid)
Your wife and you daily expense : 400 dollars (10 per lunch for 20 days)
Telecom charges : 150 (mid-tier phone plans, cable TV and internet)
the total so far : 4,700 dollars

Given your stated income of 10K, less the CPF, both of you probably bringing in home 8K.

That leave you disposable income of 3300 dollars.

From there you start to draw down the luxuries :
- petrol and servicing 500 dollars ( 400 petrol, 100 contribute to car maintenance fund)
- eating out 210 per meal (30 dollars per pax) 4 weekends ? : 840 dollars



A honest hardworking couple trying to provide is called gaining sympathy, whereas a philandering bro telling his sexcapades here is worshipped? Haha. Power lah bro. But lets study your numbers.

Your above total is $6,000. My food cost is double yours. Utilities 50% more. But its alright, we count as $6,000.

1. How come you got maid but you don't include her cost. Ok, add it in.
2. Your wife goes to work naked ah? I know this is SBF. But dream on. LoL. Add clothes cost.
3. Her make up and beauty care are important. And expensive. Add in.
4. Your kids live on milk only?! Can exchange? Mine need toys and clothes. Add in.
5. Parents allowance missing. Add in. Don't bother with medical bills. Give you chance.
6. Parents in law allowance missing. Forget this and your wife gives you hell. Add in.
7. Waa. Your home air con no need service? No TV? Rice cooker? Toaster? Hot flask? Add in.
8. $100 car maintenance seem low. No road tax and insurance? Teach me lobang can?
9. Er....you no buy personal insurance ah? Add in.

Ok, how much do you think is left?

Now bro, kindly return the honesty in reviewing my added figures. Lets see who is dishonest? Imho, you never ran a household. Thank you.

[furrybird]

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too? :(

Hmm bro, I think I understand what you mean, every family have its problems, I'm staying with parents, and wife and a kid. Can see the expenses going up every year. I'm a very careful guy with finance so I kept records of my money spent daily, after my kid came out, my savings per year got lesser every year especially from 2011.

I think you are not looking for a consul but rather an option to let off some steam. Let's put it this way, I think you are able to manage to cope with ur family finance, however you feel insecure because you may not be able to put aside enough savings or have enough for raining days having these confirm committement monthly.

Life is all about trade off, you spent on your kids, to enjoy them growing up, u repay ur parents as they brought u up, as long as u are using ur resources in a wise and correct area, you have done ur job. You got to come to terms with yourself.

U got to ask Urself what is enough, ur company don't owe us a car, nor the government owe us a lifestyle, I told my wife, I want to build my kid a 50k study fund, so he can use it for his study, I consider my job done. So while both of us agreed, I scrap my car and took on an part time job during weekends, have stop eating restaurant since 5 years back and being working weekends since 2009.

Hit my 50k mark in 2014. Quit my part time, indulge myself finally for the first time after 5 years, slowly working back to my old lifestyle. Told myself if that is still not sufficient, I leave it to god. Meanwhile my wife and parent have not change any habits.

Security lies with a contingency plan for ur family, but money is never enough for everyone, do what u can, fulfill ur duty, u have done ur job. Live with that without shame or comparison with others, take pride and hang ur head high, mental and physical health is more important than financial health.

Ultimately u are not living with others, but u do have to live withburself everyday.

Peace

[JaViEr84]

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too? :(

Bro you might have to cut some slack on your current quality of life.
I realised my colleagues in office also complaining on this but their quality of life is actually better than average.

Example: why need to buy pediasure or enfragrow when there are nestle nan etc, cos his child is ok with nan.(no compromise with health) Reason ? "oh i heard if kid who is not on better milk formula will lose out later in life compare to other kids." I cant compromise my kid's future by providing normal milk powder. Well, I can only say this is what you choose so you cant complain nowadays milk powder cost a bomb and impact alot on your monthly expenses.

Expenses are high right now, but I still can see families surviving well. Times have change we have to adjust to live comfortably. We cant compare to the past anymore. If we are not willing to compromise our current living quality and standard to suit to time, we will definitely feel the impact and stress to maintain our normal lives.

[kuasimi]

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too? :(

For 50 years, PAP had been telling Singaporeans to bite bullets, tighten belts, work harder, study harder, sacrifice more etc but even if Singaporeans follow all, high cost of living will not go away. This was because of Government induced policies. When every election is about Bread & Butter Issues for 50 years, something must be wrong.

Singaporeans are feeling like Third World people whereby no matter how educated and how hard you work, you will always feel poor, like the Africans. Inflation in Singapore is 5%-6% each year caused primarily by Government policies on Health, Housing, Transport, Education. High cost of living lowers standard of living because you can purchase lesser and lesser with same purchasing power.

Vote for WP as Government may not mean drastic drop in cost of living but Singaporeans do not know as WP has no track record yet. At least Singaporeans know voting for PAP will definitely mean higher cost of living. Vote wisely at GE2016.

[kuasimi]

Dump them in an old folk's home in a neighboring country. It'll save you a lot of money.

Feb 10, 2009
Live in nursing homes in JB?
SINGAPOREANS could consider living in nursing homes in neighbouring Johor Baru, Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan suggested yesterday.

It would be cheaper, yet be near enough to Singapore for family members to visit and for residents to return for medical care if necessary, he said.

He told Parliament yesterday that he recently visited a site in Johor Baru where a Singaporean investor was planning to build a 200-bed nursing home.

He asked the investor about the costs involved, and was stunned at how low they were.

He said: 'It is mind-boggling. The cost of land and construction cost is so low that my cost of putting up just a polyclinic (in Singapore) is probably more than his cost of putting up a 200-bed nursing home (in Johor Baru).

'The monthly cost of keeping a resident in a private nursing home in Singapore, you can stretch it easily to pay at least 2-1/2 months of nursing home care in Johor Baru.'

If any medical problems cropped up, the elderly could be taken back to Singapore by ambulance, he said.

For most Singaporeans, visiting a relative in a Johor Baru nursing home would not pose significant difficulties, he said.

The investor, who is a nursing home chief executive, told him that many people visited their relatives weekly, even in nursing homes in Singapore.

Mr Khaw added: 'Of course many visit daily, but quite a significant number visit only during the weekends, so what is the difference in putting them in Johor Baru?'

LEE HUI CHIEH

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyvZoyxTNAg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFQPaA0BWzs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DTNQTopro4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU_AG_vtzoE

[MoJoe313]

Hmm bro, I think I understand what you mean, every family have its problems, I'm staying with parents, and wife and a kid. Can see the expenses going up every year. I'm a very careful guy with finance so I kept records of my money spent daily, after my kid came out, my savings per year got lesser every year especially from 2011.

I think you are not looking for a consul but rather an option to let off some steam. Let's put it this way, I think you are able to manage to cope with ur family finance, however you feel insecure because you may not be able to put aside enough savings or have enough for raining days having these confirm committement monthly.

Life is all about trade off, you spent on your kids, to enjoy them growing up, u repay ur parents as they brought u up, as long as u are using ur resources in a wise and correct area, you have done ur job. You got to come to terms with yourself.

U got to ask Urself what is enough, ur company don't owe us a car, nor the government owe us a lifestyle, I told my wife, I want to build my kid a 50k study fund, so he can use it for his study, I consider my job done. So while both of us agreed, I scrap my car and took on an part time job during weekends, have stop eating restaurant since 5 years back and being working weekends since 2009.

Hit my 50k mark in 2014. Quit my part time, indulge myself finally for the first time after 5 years, slowly working back to my old lifestyle. Told myself if that is still not sufficient, I leave it to god. Meanwhile my wife and parent have not change any habits.

Security lies with a contingency plan for ur family, but money is never enough for everyone, do what u can, fulfill ur duty, u have done ur job. Live with that without shame or comparison with others, take pride and hang ur head high, mental and physical health is more important than financial health.

Ultimately u are not living with others, but u do have to live withburself everyday.

Peace

Thanks for writing, bro. Second post in 3 years. You must feel something to speak out.

Some quick points. Staying with parents is different from parents staying with you. You bear all cost for the latter. Yes, I am not looking for counsel. You were the only one sharp enough to notice. The rest were busy offering unnecessary advice. LoL. Yes, I am coping well. Just letting off some steam here. Again, you are sharp.

But no, I am not worried about putting aside finances for rainy days or retirement. I have sufficient reserves. Like I wrote, I do not consider myself poor. I wrote >$10k income. Not $10k. I am just getting old and tired of the game. The rapidly increasing cost of living scares me.

I am inspired that you put in so much effort for your kid's study fund. And by this, I know you are a genuine parent. Some writers here just pretend to be one. Yes, physical health is the most important at our age. I wish you good health too. You are a good and sincere person. Peace, brother.

[zeajay]

Voting WP will make your life better? U mean they duwan u pay taxes? Kick out ft? Increase our salaries? Everyone will get a car? No erp? Lolol

Well said bro, I don't see how by voting pap out can improve our lives.

[Nato17]

I am educated. I studied economics. I understand inflation. 5 years ago, crab was $32 per kg. Today its $65 per kg. It is a 100% increase. It is not called Inflation. It is called Hyper Inflation. Perhaps you haven't lived here since birth so you do not notice.

I used crab as an example. I do not have to eat crab (and act rich). This is Singapore. We are famous for Chilli _____. So its price should be common knowledge. Seriously? Must I explain every detail?

Excellent post. I know I was one of the first to really complain the prices were going through hyper inflation but everyone else thought it was ok. I am price sensitive because I have salaries to pay and thus I feel it. Anyway, I think the QE is one of the reasons we are in this situation and given that our governments' policy is not to interfere that leaves us sinkies to fend for ourselves.

Governments like to inflation and erode our purchasing power. Deflation doesn't help them at all and in fact if you look at how the newspapers put it, you would think that deflation is really bad. Look at it another way. If I remember correctly, ECP was built for 1 billion dollars. A lot of money than but now, ECP would considered a steal, thus inflation is good for the government. However, if you were Tan Tock Seng and were one of the richest men in SG then, you would not be able to keep up with inflation over time.

[Ngengheng]

Must spend within your means. Your job might not be there forever too. When you reach 50s be prepare to lose your job too . Get ready for a pay cut too. Couple with so many FTs here in sg. Dont over stretch .

[Nato17]

U got to ask Urself what is enough, ur company don't owe us a car, nor the government owe us a lifestyle, I told my wife, I want to build my kid a 50k study fund, so he can use it for his study, I consider my job done. So while both of us agreed, I scrap my car and took on an part time job during weekends, have stop eating restaurant since 5 years back and being working weekends since 2009.


I agree that the government does not owe us a living. But the last thing I expect from my leaders is sabotage my future and the future of my loved ones. When other countries practice trade protectionism, we do the opposite and we pay higher than others. That is unfair to our own people and that is what I do gripe about.

I think I sat down last year to figure out what my cost savings would be if I were to stay in SG vs staying in PRC.

The assumptions are as follows:

1. 3 bedroom condo.
2. BMW - 3 series.
3. Normal usage of petrol, utilities etc.
4. Cigarettes - 3 packs a day.

That is all. Nothing unique.

And I found out after running some simulations, I would save about $4,000 to almost $4500 per month if I were to live in PRC vs in SG. Thus, I would save without trying almost $50k a year. Nothing really. However, in 10 years I would have saved $500,000 doing nothing more than switch countries to live in. The government likes to compare us with other countries and I am just employing the same strategy as them and thus my peers doing the same thing would thus enjoy $500k SGD in savings in 10 years! Not earnings but SAVINGS.

I think our electricity bill is kinda wacked if you ask me. I mean I think SG pays something like 0.22 cents per K/J and PRC pays something like 0.10 or something like that. And every time I see the SP Bill, I am like WTF, I always seem to be using higher than my neighbours etc. One day, I am going to seriously take a poll if my neighbours really use less than me. :D

[Nato17]

Must spend within your means. Your job might not be there forever too. When you reach 50s be prepare to lose your job too . Get ready for a pay cut too. Couple with so many FTs here in sg. Dont over stretch .

I concur that a job might not be there forever. And to make matters worse, soon, if you are out of job, you may find that you cannot even drive taxi. Here is my LOGIC. Driveless cars are already being test driven. That means sooner or later, these driveless cars will ply the roads, whether we like it or not. The first mass adopters in SG will be the taxi companies. The reason is this. Why would SMRT or Prime cabs want to rent you a cab, when they can earn the whole cake themselves. And those currently driving taxis, what will they be doing?

This is definitely NOT FT's fault. But it is definitely one issue our government will need to address one day. We humans are selfish and we will overfish, over populate and kick problems down the road for others to solve as long as we meet our current KPI. And that will cause problems for us locals sooner or later.

[MoJoe313]

I agree that the government does not owe us a living. But the last thing I expect from my leaders is sabotage my future and the future of my loved ones. When other countries practice trade protectionism, we do the opposite and we pay higher than others. That is unfair to our own people and that is what I do gripe about.

I think our electricity bill is kinda wacked if you ask me. I mean I think SG pays something like 0.22 cents per K/J and PRC pays something like 0.10 or something like that. And every time I see the SP Bill, I am like WTF, I always seem to be using higher than my neighbours etc. One day, I am going to seriously take a poll if my neighbours really use less than me. :D

LoL on the electricity part. I agree that QE and low interest rates accelerated inflation. Bad policies too made it worse. Unique to us, COE and property prices have a major role in the inflation index. The supply of COE should be smoothened. Not unmanaged, and subject to the vagaries of demand and supply which is making us miserable with peaks and troughs. And I find it passing strange that while our neighbours like Malaysia, Australia and Indonesia with almost inexhaustible land parcels have policies to protect residential properties for locals, in our land scarce country, Morgan Stanley Investment Fund can buy 12 residential condos and sell them like commonly traded commodities. May I ask, where is the thought for ordinary citizens in this?

[Nato17]

LoL on the electricity part. I agree that QE and low interest rates accelerated inflation. Bad policies too made it worse. Unique to us, COE and property prices have a major role in the inflation index. The supply of COE should be smoothened. Not unmanaged, and subject to the vagaries of demand and supply which is making us miserable with peaks and troughs. And I find it passing strange that while our neighbours like Malaysia, Australia and Indonesia have almost inexhaustible land parcels, they have policies to protect residential properties for locals, whereas in our land scarce country, Morgan Stanley Investment Fund can buy 12 residential condos and sell them like commonly traded commodities. May I ask, where is the thought for ordinary citizens in this?

I think a lot of policies are being made without serious thoughts and we react rather than plan ahead. But I guess I am going to be one of those quitters which SM Goh call those who leave lor. No loss to sg when I am only Son of Geylang, while the Son of Punggol can remain and stand to fight another day lor.

[SF2004]

Dump them in an old folk's home in a neighboring country. It'll save you a lot of money.

It sad to heard this..."Dump"...u treat human as rubbish...

[MoJoe313]

I think a lot of policies are being made without serious thoughts and we react rather than plan ahead. But I guess I am going to be one of those quitters which SM Goh call those who leave lor. No loss to sg when I am only Son of Geylang, while the Son of Punggol can remain and stand to fight another day lor.


Bro, the Son of Punggol lost. Imho, the Daughters in Geylang/Macpherson are not well liked. We, the Sons of Geylang and Toa Payoh should just stick around to watch the drama unfold. An awakening should be happening soon when even the middle class do not believe any more. :D

[IamOld]

That's why ah peh now paddle bicycle

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too? :(

[super_marvel]

Well said bro, I don't see how by voting pap out can improve our lives.

Sometimes, I think that voting for pap doesn't really improve my life either... Yes, country will be richer. But I don't.

[Wintermelontea]

its about spending within your means i guess
no money dont chiong

for me i even cut down on my favourite massages, sometimes money earn so hard, rather buy something for my wifey, or my parents.

Wholeheartedly agree. These days better save more money and spend on your love ones than give these ladies. Don't ever believe in their KC. :D

[Wintermelontea]

That's why ah peh now paddle bicycle

Ah peh on electric bicycles? Hahaha.

[IamOld]

Ha your langpar. Linpeh cannot afford car can let you laugh ar? You buy car i drive lah?

Ah peh on electric bicycles? Hahaha.

[Wintermelontea]

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too? :(

Is there even a middle class to speak of? :rolleyes:

At the current state of things, middle class has been eroded. There seems to be more and a wider gap between the elite and the lower band.

The only middle class that I can see are those either returning from overseas or FTs who are newly converted to citizenships.

[Wintermelontea]

Ha your langpar. Linpeh no money can let you laugh ar? You buy car i drive lah?


You obviously take it the wrong way. If you are so sensitive, I got nothing to say. In my area, the so call not rich are the ones riding electric bicycles and all.

You got no money then go and earn. I have money also need not buy a car and let you drive. Similarly, your bicycle let me ride lor. :rolleyes:

[sammyboyfor]

It sad to heard this..."Dump"...u treat human as rubbish...

The truth hurts and I can't think of more appropriate term.

[furrybird]

Thanks for writing, bro. Second post in 3 years. You must feel something to speak out.

Some quick points. Staying with parents is different from parents staying with you. You bear all cost for the latter. Yes, I am not looking for counsel. You were the only one sharp enough to notice. The rest were busy offering unnecessary advice. LoL. Yes, I am coping well. Just letting off some steam here. Again, you are sharp.

But no, I am not worried about putting aside finances for rainy days or retirement. I have sufficient reserves. Like I wrote, I do not consider myself poor. I wrote >$10k income. Not $10k. I am just getting old and tired of the game. The rapidly increasing cost of living scares me.

I am inspired that you put in so much effort for your kid's study fund. And by this, I know you are a genuine parent. Some writers here just pretend to be one. Yes, physical health is the most important at our age. I wish you good health too. You are a good and sincere person. Peace, brother.

Yup I get what u mean, it tiresome to constantly keep up with the rat race. I seldom write because I think everyone have their right of speech, if it's not constructive then it's just web graffiti, I feel for u cos ultimately I sense in our case it's the exhaustion of constantly providing, whether its financial or physical , that duty constantly weights down and theres no end to it. A parent will always be a parent, while I do enjoy it as its parts and parcel of a family life, I do wish that sometimes there is an easier way to solve the issues. Like a government life line etc. While I find contentment in self rationalism in balances of life. I understand sometimes the best moral support is knowing there are someone out there in the same predicament and we are not alone on this route. So I wish u peace and contentment too in our walk, as you are not alone. Not due to he much we have or how good we are, or how we perform, just a tired family man, taking a break, trying to find comfort with mental speeches of our own on the web.

Peace to all bros, sorry about the once in a blue moon outburst, it strikes a cord.

[jacky43]

All my life no foreigners ask me an important Q. Is the red dot a good place to migrate rise a family and after passing, bury here yrs later?

I will say 51 % is ok. This is only me. PT girls latest competition is not PRC girls. Rather it is Myammar girls although they are not lookers. Neither selling flesh. Then how come?

Like every FT women they are so willing to please born local men. I am observing my 4 Myammar female colleagues for some times. They give me more GF feelings then the other male FTs. Sometime it make my days I though I was Jay Chow.

Whispering so close I could smell her perfume, although they are average looking. Why would I spend $ on PT girls, knowing they are operating biz nothing more. Still not to fall in on Myammar girls charm. Dont want to lose my job and, we all know.

No U turn after screw up in this red dot. No sec chance given.

[atcvin]

Is there even a middle class to speak of? :rolleyes:

At the current state of things, middle class has been eroded. There seems to be more and a wider gap between the elite and the lower band.

The only middle class that I can see are those either returning from overseas or FTs who are newly converted to citizenships.

what does middle class means? sandwiched in between lo... middle class maybe earning around 8k-12k a month, paying around $700-$1k tax per month, cannot buy BTO or EC once taking consideration of the spouse's salary.

Only choice is to buy resale HDB flat with no subsidies (HDB is really expensive compared to public housing in other countries) when we are locals and staying near parents, paying tax for govt to invite foreigners students to study free in sg whom may not be staying in sg to work..

another choice will be turning towards condo, which will make the middle income class to start getting sandwiched and getting into financial difficulties when the family start to have baby or one of the spouse get retrenched.
Eventually these will lead to two outcomes, either middle class work harder to be higher income earners or they get into debts/no saving every month, eventually lead to social problems.

TS I will suggest you find an experienced financial planner in helping you to get out of the rat race and to list out what are your current top priorities since you have already noticed, what you earn is not enough to pay for what you "need".

[kuasimi]

Well said bro, I don't see how by voting pap out can improve our lives.

I do not know about WP because WP has no track record yet. But at least I do know PAP is making our life harder through poor policies.

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoSCF1ykWx4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOa3m4hsl3M



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7oNcjaBI7k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzOLJE2ysNw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSEB8P3DAnk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQGTNyw9Rmk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPnPnkLMd1E


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-guxHFyz2A

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMxTcRs3KDU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCZJYPW3QXw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcBFp4hemrI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY1ilenkPaM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4KyEE0R9Rc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVmDINcyJBY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHhaRzzQ-7o

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24iC4uMyEyM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tze502z4rjE



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4dC7nm4SlA

[kuasimi]

That's why ah peh now paddle bicycle


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7_VGuYFZ_Y



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oza8l4Rh3RM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QPc5I3YUEo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKs6QhXss2g

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN8sb5G8zRo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAHYhv80IMI



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XnRB5_OA7c

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=608jFyWzwrM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAWcpAlVLzc



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU5FDvvBUdc

[leakypipes]

Imho, its not the income earned. Its the expenditure. Per person per household. I just wondered if I am the only one vexed with rising costs. Giving to parents done long time ago. Now its full scale living with me. Btw, its more than $1k a month. Add on the kids. Can be quite a strain. You have kids, bro?

i have 2 kids bro. my brother has 3. my sister has 2. why i mention my nieces and nephews? becos i also play a part in financing them.

i grew up poor. altho i am not poor anymore, i still lead a simple life. yes, i got car. i bought a resale flat. to live near my inlaws. cos that way i dun need a maid.

savings? roughly 5-7k a month. no lie. how? cos we live simply. we rarely splurge. what for?

if i am to be completely honest - i am the drain on savings cos of my bonking and smokin and drinking. if i cut out all three, i would be closer to that million now.....

but no matter what, i am thankful for what i have.

also - some bros up my points - i humbly thank you. pls leave me your nick and i will try to return favour.

[MoJoe313]

i have 2 kids bro. my brother has 3. my sister has 2. why i mention my nieces and nephews? becos i also play a part in financing them.

i grew up poor. altho i am not poor anymore, i still lead a simple life. yes, i got car. i bought a resale flat. to live near my inlaws. cos that way i dun need a maid.

savings? roughly 5-7k a month. no lie. how? cos we live simply. we rarely splurge. what for?

if i am to be completely honest - i am the drain on savings cos of my bonking and smokin and drinking. if i cut out all three, i would be closer to that million now.....

but no matter what, i am thankful for what i have.

also - some bros up my points - i humbly thank you. pls leave me your nick and i will try to return favour.

Bro, $5-$7k savings a month?! Zhun bo? Can detail down your monthly expenses? Share how you do it? :confused:

[Lookforhope]

I think he earn $12000 per month


Bro, $5-$7k savings a month?! Zhun bo? Can detail down your monthly expenses? Share how you do it? :confused:

[MoJoe313]

i bought a resale flat. to live near my inlaws. cos that way i dun need a maid.


I also shifted near my in laws. Same block. To save on maid. After a few years, they tired. Almost 80 y.o.. Look after 10+ grandchildren already. They surrender. Same for my parents. Now it's the other way round. My maid exists to help them. Maybe your in laws are still young......and you sound younger. You haven't kena any medical bills from them yet I suppose?

[wildcard87]

10k is a good sum I guess for 2 earners.Im single,take home about 3.6.Avg monthly savings about 1-1.2k after deducting household contributions etc.But yeah,still don't feel it is enough.Working 4years liquid savings of 50k only.Just regret that younger days never save and invest.sighs

[MoJoe313]

10k is a good sum I guess for 2 earners.Im single,take home about 3.6.Avg monthly savings about 1-1.2k after deducting household contributions etc.But yeah,still don't feel it is enough.Working 4years liquid savings of 50k only.Just regret that younger days never save and invest.sighs

Bro, $3.6k for a single is TWICE richer than $10k shared by a family of 7 ($10,000/7=$1,428)

[jacky43]

Who is the cause of all this? All people in the house not forgetting opposition too. Only a group of born locals changing and searching for jobs will understand. It is tragic they need not say the truth but I will voice out their angry.

I write $1000 on job application form FT and PR will mark down to $900. They secure my job. In the same time I am paying $100k for a 3 room resale flat at GL. The same group of people from the other side, they will mark up $110k they got my flat.

Add on to my angry, my manager says foreigners need a place to live. Excuse him so am I. We do have a group of born locals who had weakness on foreigners.

My point is born locals should be brave then to join this people. We walk a different path thats what make us strong.

Another example I heard a reno Chinese man supervisor scolding two of his blanglahs workers. He said they could have done two works before 2 pm. Instead they close for lunch break. Return after 1 pm and lock off after 2 pm probably looking at OT. Perhaps over the weakend bec of x2 rates.

He is old fashion mine friends. He did not had the book where teachers cant teach. The old man too could never pen it for future generation. That is this 2blanglahs are looking at 10 years stay in this red dot. They knew that if they did not break laws, years later sure will receive blue ICs some even pink ones.

There could only be a thing to whack foreigners. No OT allow even if they drap their work bec they wish to but Iphone 7. No need to pity as well as encourage them.

[pussylicious12345]

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch too? :(

Stop whining... There are people worst off than you and not complaining. You can choose not to drive and take public transport. Nobody ask u to eat restaurant, there are a lot of good food in coffee shop and hawker ctr. Who ask u to eat durian if u find it expensive? No money then don't eat chili crab. It's all about choices.... Don't blame others for ur own desire...

[kiko]

Bro : I think there are 2 option for you.

1) Sell off the car, if your job does not require cars , why need it. I had seen Singaporeans travel with their kids and wife taking bus and MRT .

2) If you have extra money , why not go upgrade , see yourself in future be more employable, and salary increase when you have a extra certificates.

Perhaps, like what the other bro say if you can cut down on restaurants is better to do so. I had seen almost every weekends , Singaporeans spending in restaurants like those in Long Beach , Sushi Teh . Almost every weekends is full house for Japanese restaurants and seafood.

Thanks

[kuasimi]

THE rising cost of living will be high on the agenda when Parliament sits on Monday.

Two MPs have tabled questions that reflect their concern on how fast-rising food prices are causing a dent in the Singaporean's wallet.

Wheat prices, for example, are at global historic highs owing to droughts in Australia and crop failures in the United States. They have, in turn, caused animal feed, and hence meat, to become more costly.

MP for Jurong GRC Halimah Yacob, who will ask Trade and Industry Minister Lim Hng Kiang how the Government is tackling the situation, said more can be done to educate people on eating less-costly alternatives.

'For example, the price of chicken may be rising fast, but we can encourage Singaporeans to turn to alternative sources of protein, such as fish,' she told The Straits Times yesterday.

Non-Constituency MP Sylvia Lim wants to know, among other things, the impact of the hike in the goods and services tax in July on rising consumer prices.

On the property market, Madam Ho Geok Choo (West Coast GRC) will ask National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan for an update on the impact of the recent withdrawal of the deferred payment scheme.

The scheme allowed home buyers to pay upfront as little as 10 per cent of a property's price, with the rest paid only when the property is ready. The Government scrapped it last month to curb speculation.

Issues on the MediShield insurance scheme are also expected to receive an airing, with three questions filed.

One is from MP for Jalan Besar GRC Denise Phua, who wants Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan to clarify whether the new move to give children automatic MediShield cover will include those with special needs.

From next month, children will start to have such cover, which is for hospital stay. Insurance premiums will be paid from their parents' Medisave fund.

'As I understand it, those born with pre-existing illnesses are not included,' Ms Phua said yesterday. 'I hope these children can enjoy the same kind of medical coverage, just like normal Singaporean children.'


Five new Bills will be introduced, while another five introduced earlier are up for debate. One slated for debate is the National Registry of Diseases Bill, which calls for the setting up of a national disease database to collate data on common illnesses.

[kuasimi]

Ministers need to be paid highest in the world is because they risk losing their jobs every 5 years instead of every year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d07rbcP34j4

https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/therealsingapore/photos/pb.416856241692882.-2207520000.1411051561./843960502315785/?type=1&theater

http://alexbinich.blogspot.sg/2007/04/what-it-says.html

http://siewkumhong.blogspot.sg/2007/04/speech-on-ministerial-statement-on.html

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/current-affairs-lounge-17/stunning-news-3in1-kopitiam-worlds-30-highest-paid-politicians-all-same-country-3096997.html


http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/current-affairs-lounge-17/reader-slams-civil-service-pay-hike-1571953-5.html



PDS dispels myths on ministers, civil servants pay

It responds to public's misperceptions of civil service salaries, perks and pensions



http://www.singapolitics.sg/news/auditor-general-report-highlights-lapses-govt-procurement

http://theindependent.sg/govt-audits-its-the-same-story-every-year/

This was revealed in the report released by Auditor-General Lim Soo Ping on Monday, that revealed significant lapses in the public sector.

Other problem areas in contract management and financial administration were also highlighted. They included an instance in which the Ministry of Finance had double-paid for goods and services worth more than $18 million through its Vital department, set up to process payments for purchases made by ministries.

In his comments, the Auditor-General criticised the way agencies treated the role of the approving authorities that have the power to award contracts. Saying that it is not a perfunctory role, he urged approving authorities to exercise scepticism in its scrutiny of bids.

[kuasimi]

http://www.sgpolitics.net/?p=4237

Said Mr Lee: “The PAP makes promises they deliver. The Opposition cannot deliver.”

“If you have a flood, just carefully think who is more likely to get the drainage put right and have the flood alleviated as quickly as possible: A PAP candidate with links to the ministers and Prime Minister, or a non-PAP candidate who has become an MP, like in Potong Pasir or Hougang, and who has to manage on his own?”

“That’s a fact of life.”

Source: Today newspaper, “MM Lee explains his tough stance against Opposition, throws a challenge“, 29 April 2006.

[kuasimi]

http://mrwangsaysso.blogspot.sg/2012/01/grace-fu-should-consider-resignation.html

Grace Fu Should Consider Resignation

Singapore has the world's most highly-paid ministers. If I recall correctly, they have held this world record for about the past 20 years. It is a record that has caused a huge amount of public unhappiness. Especially in the past decade, during which the government didn't ever seem to be particularly impressive or outstanding.

Now, finally, ministerial salaries are going to be cut. Mind you, after these cuts (which are quite substantial in percentage terms - about 36%), the ministers will STILL hold their world record. Which must surely suggest to any half-intelligent person how grossly overpaid the ministers have been all along.

But then you get the likes of Grace Fu (who is our Minister of State for something or the other). Writing on her own Facebook wall, Fu says:

“When I made the decision to join politics in 2006, pay was not a key factor. Loss of privacy, public scrutiny on myself and my family and loss of personal time were. The disruption to my career was also an important consideration. I had some ground to believe that my family would not suffer a drastic change in the standard of living even though I experienced a drop in my income. So it is with this recent pay cut. If the balance is tilted further in the future, it will make it harder for any one [sic] considering political office.” Grace Fu.
Now, lots of Singaporeans are angry with Grace Fu. The comments have come thick, fast and furious. As of right now, her Facebook post has drawn about 1,300 comments (that's about 650 times the average number of comments on her other Facebook postings). And of course, there is plenty of negative media attention, online and in the newspapers too.

Putting aside the other issues for now, I'm startled at Grace Fu's lack of political sensitivity. It was really, really stupid and unnecessary of her to write such a thing. Fu wasn't even under pressure. It wasn't as if she was at a press conference, and a belligerent journalist had just thrown an unexpected and difficult question at her, and she couldn't think fast enough about what best to say.

Instead - we can imagine it - there she was, relaxing in her living room, playing with her iPad, sipping a nice cup of tea, logging in to check her messages. And then suddenly, Fu decided to write what she wrote. On Facebook. Not in a private journal, not in a personal memo, but on Facebook.

She must have totally failed to foresee what would happen next.

What poor judgment! What a severe lack of foresight. And she's a minister, for goodness sakes. Who knows what other horrible errors she might have spoken or written, on other past occasions.

Now, of course Fu is backpedalling and she has made a statement that she had been "misunderstood". This is damage control .... for completely self-inflicted damage. LOL, that is funny.

Imagine this - you are a minister, and you say something, the public is shocked and angry. And then you say, "Oh, all of you tens of thousands of people, you've misunderstood me. I am the poor, unfortunate, misunderstood one." Sing me another song, birdie.

"Me talk nonsense. Also can sing song.

How much you pay me?"

If Grace Fu can be so badly misunderstood, then that surely says something about Grace Fu's communication skills. It is extremely difficult to get thousands of people to misunderstand you. I am sure that I could not possibly succeed in pulling off such a feat. (But then I am not a PAP minister, I lack such talent).

However - and this will surprise many of my own readers - I am not actually angry about the content, the actual substance, of Grace Fu's statement.

Why am I not angry?

Look - this woman is merely a product of the system. And what is the system that I speak of? It is the PAP recruitment system that Lee Kuan Yew decided to create, 20 years ago. A system that deliberately entices job applicants with world-record-setting amounts of money.

The inevitable result - the PAP attracts many talented political wannabes whose main interest is in the money. (Meanwhile, talented political wannabes who just hope to serve the nation can join the Workers' Party - like Chen Show Mao did).

And when the money gets cut, well, you can naturally expect the PAP ministers (at least, the more money-minded ones) to get upset. Isn't that logical? If you had come for the money, then you WOULD be upset by a pay cut, surely.

My blog post is entitled "Grace Fu Should Consider Resignation". Sounds sensationalist, doesn't it? But it isn't really. (I'm not that kind of blogger, lah). Let me just explain my thinking.

It goes like this - if any minister is really very unhappy with his or her pay, then he or she can always quit. It's not like they are being forced to be ministers.

Unhappy employees don't perform well - we know that from our own experiences in working life. It is better for the company if they quit. It is better for themselves too, for they can go elsewhere and find another job that is more satisfying for them.

Why would we expect things to be any different for our ministers? If they are not happy with their pay, they won't perform well. They should just quit and get a more lucrative job elsewhere (if they can, of course). After they resign as ministers, Singapore can replace them with new ministers who care less about the money, and care more about serving the nation.

So I say this to all the ministers - if you're not happy with your pay, please quit. Now, rather than five years later. Do yourself a favour, and do the country a favour. Just get out.

[kuasimi]

One-Third Revenue from GST Increase goes to Minister Pay Increment

How well is well-paid?

By Tan Hui Leng and Jasmie Yen, TODAY | Posted: 10 April 2007 1028

They expressed support for the need to pay top dollar for top talent in the public sector.

But Members of Parliament (MPs) who took part in yesterday's parliamentary debate on the pay hike also spoke passionately about what many Singaporeans believe to be the heart of the issue: The benchmarking formula used to determine ministerial pay.

Ang Mo Kio MP Inderjit Singh noted that Singaporeans could not expect their leaders to serve based on altruism alone. "Are we willing to leave the future of the country to chance, that we will get good people who will give up their competence without caring about their salary?" he asked.

Some MPs, however, saw problems in benchmarking ministers' pay to the private sector, pointing out to disparities in the risks taken by company chief executives and ministers and top civil servants.

Marine Parade MP Lim Biow Chuan said: "I struggle to understand what a top Admin Officer aged 32 at grade SR9 has to worry about that will justify him receiving $363,000 a year … From many people's perspectives, they take no personal risk and are at best, paid employees."

Opposition MPs Mr Chiam See Tong (Potong Pasir) and Hougang's Low Thia Khiang took issue with the fact that Singapore's ministers are paid more than their counterparts in developed countries.

MPs like Bishan-Toa Payoh's Mrs Josephine Teo, however, pointed out that ministers in other countries may make more money after their term in office ends, such as through public speaking.

Some MPs voiced concerns about the timing of announcing the pay revisions, especially with the Goods and Services Tax (GST) due to rise to 7 per cent in July.

Mr Singh said: "How do we answer the man-in-the-street when we're told that about one-quarter to one-third of the expected revenue increase this year from the GST is going to be for the proposed ministerial and civil service salary increases, about $240 million, I was told?"

Mr Low also referred to the recent debate on increasing the amounts for public assistance. "It's also ironic that we are consuming taxpayers' money and … discussing how much more of a fraction of a million to pay civil servants and ministers while we haggle over additional tens of dollars to hand out to our needy and disadvantaged citizens," he said.

Some MPs who supported the pay hike also suggested that the salary benchmarking could be finetuned, such as pegging ministers' salaries to more realistic markers such as top men in private equity firms and top companies based on market capitalisation.

[kuasimi]

‘Reasonable pay will help to maintain a bit of dignity’

Member of Parliament Lim Wee Kiak of the Nee Soon group representation constituency (GRC) defended ministerial salaries by saying a reasonable payout helped maintain "dignity" for politicians.

He was quickly slammed by netizens, many of whom pointed out in various posts on the Web that "dignity" should not be justified by salary alone.

The multi-million dollar pay of ministers was a hot-button issue in Singapore's recent General Election, which saw the ruling People's Action Party win 81 out of 87 seats but at a significantly lower share of the total votes.

Following the results, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong announced the formation of a committee to review the "basis and level of political salaries". Any pay changes would take effect from 21 May this year.

"If the annual salary of the Minister of Information, Communication and Arts is only $500,000, it may pose some problems when he discuss policies with media CEOs who earn millions of dollars because they need not listen to the minister's ideas and proposals. Hence, a reasonable payout will help to maintain a bit of dignity," Dr Lim told LianHe ZaoBao in Chinese.

In reaction, Francis Oen postedon Facebook: "Hi Wee Kiat.. Suggest you clarify your statement. Does it mean that only $ talks?! ... And if someone earns less, does it mean he cannot have dignity?"

Winnie Lim tweeted: "So according to Dr Lim Wee Kiak's theory, our ministers will ignore Obama because he earns less than all of them."

On his Facebook page, Dr Lim said that his quote was taken out of context.
"Minister's pay issue is a sensitive one. There must be a balance. After all, capable individuals who are willing to come forward to serve should not so because of pay and perks," he replied to a user's question about his quote.

He added, "On the other hand, they do have families and dependents and need to consider for retirement, etc."

[kuasimi]

MINISTER Mentor Lee Kuan Yew called for a sense of proportion yesterday, pointing out that the annual wage bill for ministers and all office holders is $46 million - or just 0.022 per cent of Singapore's total economic output.

It was an ' absurdity', he said, for Singaporeans to quarrel over whether ministers collectively should be paid $10 million or $20 million more, when an economy worth $210 billion was at stake

'The cure to all this talk is really a good dose of incompetent government,' he said in his first comments on impending salary increases for ministers and top civil servants. 'You get that alternative and you'll never put Singapore together again.'

Singaporeans' asset values would also disappear, he warned, adding that 'your apartment will be worth a fraction of what it is, your jobs will be in peril, your security will be at risk and our women will become maids in other people's countries'.

He said the present system of benchmarking ministers' pay to top private sector salaries was 'completely above board' and allowed the Government to recruit 'some of the very best' to lead the country

When it was put to him that people hoped for leaders who were willing to make sacrifices and who were not there for the money, he replied that these were 'admirable sentiments'. But he added that 'we live in the real world'.

His bottom line: if the Government could not pay competitive salaries, Singapore would not be able to compete and 'we're not going to live well'.

[kuasimi]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/world/asia/10singapore.html?ref=leekuanyew


Singapore’s Highly Paid Officials Get Richer



By SETH MYDANS

Published: April 10, 2007


Correction Appended

SINGAPORE, April 9 — How much money does it take to keep a government minister in Singapore happy?

The government says a million dollars is not enough, and on Monday it announced a 60 percent increase in ministers’ salaries, to an average of $1.9 million Singapore dollars, or about $1.3 million, by next year.

Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong’s pay will jump to about $2 million — five times the $400,000 earned by President Bush.

In this nation where the bottom line truly is the bottom line, the argument goes, you have to pay to get them and you have to pay to keep them clean.

“If we don’t do that, in the long term the government system will slowly crumble and collapse,” Defense Minister Teo Chee Hean told reporters last month. “Corruption will set in, and we will become like many other countries, and face the problems that many other countries face,” The Straits Times, Singapore’s largest-circulation newspaper, quoted him as saying.

In announcing the pay increases on Monday, Mr. Teo, who also oversees the civil service, said: “We don’t want pay to be the reason for people to join us. But we also don’t want pay to be the reason for them not to join us, or to leave after joining us.”

Singapore’s pay system was created in 1994 by the nation’s founding prime minister, Lee Kuan Yew. It pegged the salaries of government ministers and top civil servants to the money they might earn at the top of the private sector.

Under that formula, ministers are to be paid two-thirds of the median of the top eight earners in each of six professions: accounting, law, banking, engineering, multinational companies and local manufacturing.

There has been no public sign of discontent among the men and women who run Singapore, but last month the prime minister noted that they were earning just 55 percent of that benchmark. Hence the raise for the three dozen men and women who run Singapore.

Defending the system against an unusual public yelp of pain, Mr. Lee, whose title is minister mentor, painted a horrifying picture of a Singapore governed by ministers who earn no more than ministers elsewhere.

“Your apartment will be worth a fraction of what it is,” he said. “Your jobs will be in peril, your security will be at risk, and our women will become maids in other people’s countries.”

It is true that Singapore has one of the most efficient and corruption-free governments in the world. Transparency International, a private monitoring agency, recently listed it as the fifth most corruption-free nation of 163 surveyed.

It is Asia’s second-richest country after Japan, with a gross domestic product per capita of about $31,000. The first Prime Minister Lee said it could well afford to pay its leaders top dollar.

The average Singaporean earns roughly $3,000 a month, and the government has voiced concern over a widening gap between rich and poor. The ministers’ pay was approved three months before the sales tax is to be increased by 2 percent.

Talk of the pay raise drew criticism here that included letters to newspapers and an online petition that has more than 800 signatures.

“I am sure Enron and Worldcom paid more than top dollar for their top executives, and look where their companies are now — six feet under,” Mohamad Rosle Ahmad wrote to the editor of The Straits Times.

The elder Mr. Lee said naysayers needed a reality check. “I say you have no sense of proportion; you don’t know what life is about,” he said.

“The cure to all this talk is really a good dose of incompetent government,” he added. “You get that alternative, and you’ll never put Singapore together again.”

The Straits Times quoted him as saying his current salary as minister mentor was about $1.8 million.

Some Singaporeans suggested that other motivations should also come into play for government jobs.

“What about other redeeming intangibles such as honor and sense of duty, dedication, passion and commitment, loyalty and service?” asked Hussin Mutalib, a political science professor at the National University of Singapore, in a Straits Times online forum.

Carolyn Lim, a prominent writer, suggested in an essay that Singapore needed a little more heart to go along with its hard head.

“To see a potential prime minister as no different from a potential top lawyer, and likely to be enticed by the same stupendous salary, would be to blur the lines between two very different domains,” she wrote.

The minister mentor brushed aside such concerns. “Those are admirable sentiments,” he said. “But we live in a real world.”

Correction: April 13, 2007



An article on Tuesday about the high salaries of Singapore government officials misstated the given name of a prominent writer who suggested in an essay that comparability with the private sector should not be the only consideration in setting government salaries. She is Catherine Lim, not Carolyn.

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=608jFyWzwrM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAWcpAlVLzc



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU5FDvvBUdc



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixbaZu5Gvis

[kuasimi]

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/current-affairs-lounge-17/dr-balaji-sadasivan-promises-lower-healthcare-costs-if-pap-given-strong-mandate-1284659.html

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/gpgt-doctor-house-jin-elite-chateau-de-holland-rd-4583285.html


Dr Balaji Sadasivan promises lower healthcare costs if PAP given strong mandate

SINGAPORE : Dr Balaji Sadasivan, who is a member of the People's Action Party (PAP) team contesting Ang Mo Kio Group Representation Constituency, addressed concerns over healthcare costs at a PAP rally on Saturday.

He said given a strong mandate, the PAP would continue to find ways to make healthcare affordable for older Singaporeans.

Dr Balaji said, "Everyone is concerned about the cost of healthcare. When you go to neighbouring countries, in public hospitals, the care is very cheap. But whenever Singaporeans go there, the first thing they want to do is to transfer to a hospital in Singapore, cause the quality of healthcare is excellent, which is why the life expectancy of Singaporeans is so much longer than those of citizens of neighbouring countries.

"But in the next five years, if you give us a strong mandate, we will find ways to make healthcare affordable and more convenient for more Singaporeans. You have heard Minister Khaw Boon Wan on the new CPF rules that allow you to use CPF or Medisave account for outpatient care. This will help many older Singaporeans. We will also reorganise care for elderly, so that your many illnesses can be looked after by one doctor, bringing down the cost of your healthcare, but (to) do this, we need a strong mandate from you."

Meanwhile, PAP candidate for Ang Mo Kio GRC, Inderjit Singh, said there is no need for the opposition to be represented in Parliament.

He told the crowd at a PAP rally that the party is able to provide its checks and balances in governance.

"Now you must have seen in Parliament...that there are MPs from the PAP who were...willing to challenge the government to question their policies, and more importantly to provide constructive criticisms in parliament. And unfortunately, those MPs are not the opposition MPs, those are the PAP MPs, like myself.

"In fact, if you listen carefully in Parliament, sometimes the opposition MPs look like they are PAP MPs, and the PAP MPs, like the few that I mentioned, including myself, look like opposition MPs." - CNA/ms

[kuasimi]

http://therealsingapore.com/content/new-revelation-bishan-coffeeshop-owner-pap-member


http://therealsingapore.com/content/222-million-lta-contract-awarded-company-run-ex-pap-members

http://atans1.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/thanks-jos-for-giving-nishan-east-residents-another-reason-not-to-support-the-pap/

I thought past 30 years Singapore had cheap labour from Third World nations so why are food prices still increasing and why is cost of living increasing? Why every year inflation is record 6% ?
Cheap labour is useless when against greedy landlords, high rentals and high utilities ??

Why standards of Singapore Street Food have fallen greatly and disappearing over the last 10 years? The root causes are PAP Government policies.

Government stopped building cheaper rentals Hawker Centres 10-15 years ago and started buidling food courts and shifting burden of street food to private commercial Food Courts and coffeeshops run by mostly PAP members and RC members. All are SMEs.

Rents are exploding at most Food Courts and coffeeshops run by landlords Kopitiam, Food Republic, Banquet, NTUC Food, Coffeeshop Companies etc thus driving genuine Hawkers out of business.

In the past, rents are very low at Hawker Centres and good hawkers are rewarded for their good food by making huge profits each day. Some went on to become millionaires.

Today, the private food court groups and coffeeshop groups as landlords are increasing rental every year. Even if the hawkers serve fantastic food with lots of customers, the hawkers earn little profit margin.

As most profits go to rentals, the hawkers find little incentives to remain as hawkers and to improve the food quality. This is why today, most food courts and coffeeshop stalls are run by foreigners from China, India, ASEAN on a fixed pay. They sell 10 or 100 plates per hour also same pay so no motivation to improve the food. Profiteering replaces serving better food.

The recent news about a HDB coffeeshop at Ang Mo Kio change hands for $28 million struck fear in many consumers. Where does it end? Hawkers like taxi drivers are no longer working for themselves but working for private food operators.

Even a new Hawker Centre at Sengkang was sold to Kopitiam by government. Privatising hawker centres was a disaster. The Sengkang Hawker Centre has few hawkers. Many stalls are not rented out as rents can hit 5 digits. The stalls that remained are run by foreigners like PRC cooking Char Kway Teow.

PAP plans to privatise all Hawker Centres left remaining. If this policy continues, sooner or later, Singapore Street Food will disappear for good. These days, want to find a good Mee Siam or Mee Rebus is also very tough.


In 20 years time, if PAP remains as government, there will not be any Singapore left for Singaporeans. Yu Sheng will no longer be available in Singapore as Chinese from China set up more China eateries and China restaurants and China Chinese become majority in Singapore. By then the PAP MPs, PAP Ministers and Civil Servants responsible for the ultra liberal immigration and ultra liberal labour policies would have cash out,empty the coffers and left Singapore.

Street Food prices kept increasing each year but food quality kept on declining each year. Vote PAP out to vote out PAP policies.

[jacky43]

I forgive myself for having a flu bec had plans to visit PT this pm. My payday lah! You guys allreally saw it.

Thats the way it is the people in office need new comers. Actually other countries does not practice this and the ruling party still hold on to power. Serious the most powerful man should come out with better plans. Not that he bury somethings into a hole, 50 yrs later after his passing not his problems we had no jobs no biz and our girls had to work at Ocean hotel.

All born locals should tighten our belts. Downgrade to smaller cars I advice my nephew to take public transport. He said he could borrow $ and 1/2 later purchase a new car. I chide him he is driving petrol car daily he should have enough driving then to drive to and from work. But he said he wants to show off thats he is doing well.

Again as his uncle I had to support him so I keep my mouth shut.

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElKCso_muLs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T8kInEYNYY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc05cVpjW3E


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6gfC4TOVL4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDGsuKvgB5c


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QRzm1gOOek


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hH7Fg-GZzM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aWt9ho7__Y


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loUBygFVmrY

[Herus]

How come the thread become so political?

[sbfblack]

Bro your lifestyle too high and Atas le... Time to look at these spendings are they a need or want.

My wife plus me not even 10k we live comfortably...

[kuasimi]

Bro : I think there are 2 option for you.

1) Sell off the car, if your job does not require cars , why need it. I had seen Singaporeans travel with their kids and wife taking bus and MRT .

2) If you have extra money , why not go upgrade , see yourself in future be more employable, and salary increase when you have a extra certificates.

Perhaps, like what the other bro say if you can cut down on restaurants is better to do so. I had seen almost every weekends , Singaporeans spending in restaurants like those in Long Beach , Sushi Teh . Almost every weekends is full house for Japanese restaurants and seafood.

Thanks

Even if every Singaporean bite bullets to adjust to the high cost of living, the increase in the cost of living will not go away. If every Singaporean need to live like a Third World standard of living to suit poor government policies and survive, then what for still vote for PAP? What for need to work hard ? What for need education ? We work hard to feed the most expensive Ministers and Civil Service in the world?

[kuasimi]

Sometimes, I think that voting for pap doesn't really improve my life either... Yes, country will be richer. But I don't.

PAP Old Guards were good but dead or retired. But New PAP is greedy and self-serving. New PAP is basically relying on stories and glories of PAP Old Guards to stay relevant. New PAP lack competence compare to PAP Old Guards.

[Mora1Epitome]

Once it was for the people. Now it is for themselves :(

[leakypipes]

Bro, $5-$7k savings a month?! Zhun bo? Can detail down your monthly expenses? Share how you do it? :confused:


All figures shown below are monthly

Nett combined household income: 14k

Contribution to parents/siblings: 1.5- 2k

Petrol: 360

Childcare for 2 kids: 1k (estimate - and also this is paid out of CDA account)

Monthly credit card bill : 3-4k - this covers all external dining, including daily lunch except for when we eat at kpt/hawker centre; any clothes/accessories/any other purchase.

Cash spending: up to 1k. Includes bonking, cigarettes, and some alcohol. other alcohol covered by credit card.

Insurance policies: 700

Total monthly expenditure: 6.9k-9k.

Savings: 5k-7.1k.

Plus, this figure doesn't include bonuses. This is just operating on a monthly basis.

How we keep spending down? Some examples: every piece of furniture in my house is about 4 years old - since i moved into this place. some are older cos inherit from other people. For our two kids, we have not had to spend much on clothes because we get hand me downs and some brand new clothes from family, friends and colleagues. My electric shaver is 8 years old. Birthday gift from when i was dating my wife. I don't have cable tv - because we don't really have time to watch with work and 2 kids. We relax with free to air tv, downloads and buy cheap dvds from online. my teh kor and my socks and shoes dont get replaced until really jialat. My car is a third hand originally from 2007. purchased in 2012. planning to drive until scrap. after that see market how. probably go for another second hand. pay cash and avoid loan.

The operating principle for any purchase is what is the cheapest way we can get it. I am lucky because my wife does not see a need to buy the latest fashions. and she normally don't buy clothes unless on sale. same with me. we both grew up in poor families. so we understand the value of every dollar. and we know what matters in our lives.

what are we doing with all that savings? well, we are investing in our children's future, and our own retirement. the whole goal is not to rely on cpf minimum sum alone. we are both very grateful that we are not quite poor anymore, and we appreciate every cent we make.

also, by living simply, we hope to teach the girls a good example. and teach them to be grateful for what they have.

anyway bro, i dont really mean to lecture you. it is your life, and your choice how to live it. but if you are not happy about something, you should ask yourself what you really want, and what you need to do to get there. you can blame the environment all you want, but if tomorrow you move to another country, will your life really be better? if you believe that is the solution, you should work towards making it happen.

[leakypipes]

I think he earn $12000 per month

not wrong eh bro. combined household income monthly is about s$14k

[leakypipes]

I also shifted near my in laws. Same block. To save on maid. After a few years, they tired. Almost 80 y.o.. Look after 10+ grandchildren already. They surrender. Same for my parents. Now it's the other way round. My maid exists to help them. Maybe your in laws are still young......and you sound younger. You haven't kena any medical bills from them yet I suppose?

i took out insurance for my father about 5 years ago. one shield plan plus another plan to cover cash component. shield plan paid for out of my medisave. the other plan i pay cash.

about 3 years ago, he fell sick. went hospital and stay 1 week plus. we paid nothing. insurance cover all. nowadays, got some costs arising from his treatment. but manageable. touchwood.

granted, my mother in law still young. my father in law... well the less said the better... my dad not q young but not ancient.

[kiko]

I also surprised bros talking about Politics now.. No choice Singapore high rising cost. Need to plan for the future, Retiring age become 55 to 65 .

[kuasimi]

I also surprised bros talking about Politics now.. No choice Singapore high rising cost. Need to plan for the future, Retiring age become 55 to 65 .

Like it or not, it is unavoidable politics affect us everyday. We are part of politics. All citizens consume policies from government that will affect their daily life. The day you were born, you consume government's health policy.

[MoJoe313]

All figures shown below are monthly

Nett combined household income: 14k

Contribution to parents/siblings: 1.5- 2k

Petrol: 360

Childcare for 2 kids: 1k (estimate - and also this is paid out of CDA account)

Monthly credit card bill : 3-4k - this covers all external dining, including daily lunch except for when we eat at kpt/hawker centre; any clothes/accessories/any other purchase.

Cash spending: up to 1k. Includes bonking, cigarettes, and some alcohol. other alcohol covered by credit card.

Insurance policies: 700

Total monthly expenditure: 6.9k-9k.

Savings: 5k-7.1k.

Plus, this figure doesn't include bonuses. This is just operating on a monthly basis.

How we keep spending down? Some examples: every piece of furniture in my house is about 4 years old - since i moved into this place. some are older cos inherit from other people. For our two kids, we have not had to spend much on clothes because we get hand me downs and some brand new clothes from family, friends and colleagues. My electric shaver is 8 years old. Birthday gift from when i was dating my wife. I don't have cable tv - because we don't really have time to watch with work and 2 kids. We relax with free to air tv, downloads and buy cheap dvds from online. my teh kor and my socks and shoes dont get replaced until really jialat. My car is a third hand originally from 2007. purchased in 2012. planning to drive until scrap. after that see market how. probably go for another second hand. pay cash and avoid loan.

The operating principle for any purchase is what is the cheapest way we can get it. I am lucky because my wife does not see a need to buy the latest fashions. and she normally don't buy clothes unless on sale. same with me. we both grew up in poor families. so we understand the value of every dollar. and we know what matters in our lives.

what are we doing with all that savings? well, we are investing in our children's future, and our own retirement. the whole goal is not to rely on cpf minimum sum alone. we are both very grateful that we are not quite poor anymore, and we appreciate every cent we make.

also, by living simply, we hope to teach the girls a good example. and teach them to be grateful for what they have.

anyway bro, i dont really mean to lecture you. it is your life, and your choice how to live it. but if you are not happy about something, you should ask yourself what you really want, and what you need to do to get there. you can blame the environment all you want, but if tomorrow you move to another country, will your life really be better? if you believe that is the solution, you should work towards making it happen.

Bro,
Here is how we stack up.

Nett combined household income: More than yours

Contribution to parents/siblings: About same

Petrol: Same. You no road tax? Insurance? Servicing?

Childcare for 2 kids: No wonder. Your kids are young.

Monthly credit card bill : I can't see your breakdown of $3-4k. Mine is slightly more.

Cash spending: I quit smoking, partying, binge drinking years ago. Now drink at home.

Insurance policies: about same

Total monthly expenditure: More than yours.

Savings: Little from monthly income recently. I do have sufficient past reserves.

Strange that your wife has no make up or beauty care costs.

My modus operandi is to get free clothings for my kids too. Things, if not broken are repaired and re-used. Thrift is key in everything. This is why I don't even have that occasional chilli crab (at a non air con kopi tiam).

Summary:
1. Your kids are young. As they get older, imho their expenses grow. By a lot. I don't know what you mean by "investing in their future". If it is not a cliche or an excuse to buy another condo, then surely they will need tuition soon.

Some argue tuition is a luxury. I beg to differ. Chinese tuition is a must imho. No chinese, T scores get dragged down. Languages have double weightages at PSLE.

Maths tuition a must too if you are serious about their future. Trust me, you won't know how to teach Heuristics. It is very complicated. When your child asks you 2 more times, you will head to MindStretcher.

I never had tuition all my life. But times are different. Our schools now boast how smart our children are. They never considered HOW each did it behind the scene.

Then the usual school bus fees, recess allowance, school excursions, books. Now multiply that by 3 for me.

2. It appears your parents or in laws do not stay with you. Imho, you are leeching off a hidden cost by making them take care of your kids. I don't. And, its not as though I can choose a cheaper option.

My parents stay with me. I have to provide food. And a helper to look after them and the kids. So I have a monthly food and maid cost.

The above two should account for the main difference in our costs. I don't splurge on myself or wife. Its all for the kids and parents. When my kids were younger and my parents not staying with me, I too could save. Now, no more.

(I am sure some stupid idiot is going to "advise" me not to be ungrateful but seriously use your friggin head. If I am ungrateful, they won't be taken care of....with the services of even a maid thrown in. Duh!)

Recently, I am struck with some health issues. Not uncommon when one is nearing 50. I can chiong all the way when I was in my late 30s like you (if I am guessing your age right). But at my age now, I start to ask questions.

Maybe you will ask the same questions many years later. Or maybe I did get my budgeting wrong.

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BzQcyHrlKo



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgtMeSwDGbo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP90hrmCSMg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTlhPkPeOx8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKFgY216OVM

[geylangbonker]

Singaporeans spending power is rather high as time passes by,
let me quote an example...if u earn an average income of $2000/- let say.
you can calculate your daily expenses by dividing your monthly salary after CPF deduction is only left with $1600/- per month for you to last....right?


Okay....$1600/20 days(5 days work week) based on daily calculations is $80/- per day for daily expenditure.

If let say an sillyporean daily meals is about $20/- per day for meals , if you drive a car , petrol is about $15/- per day to and fro from work , you already saved+ marlboro cigarettes...$12.80xx...you are left with $32.20/-

keep aside the $32.20 for personal savings...so per month you will have$644/- not for daily needs..


i am quoting based on a low wage worker pay , so u still have a sum for monthly savings ....


as the years passed by , i wonder how spore will become one day as prices keeps on increasing plus the lust-fulness of singaporean men patronising prostitutes....


Whether you are a bachelor, divorcee or married men, the only way to let money grow is to bet on TOTO...HORSE PUNTING AND CASINOES..BUT on a rarely basis...luck is like a taking lift,,,sometimes up and will go down again...:cool:

If one of you strike 1st prize toto 1 millions or more....remember to invest in property and migrate to overseas if you still have a sum of money and stay in low standard countries like thailand or vietnam.....set a small business and marry a foreign wife , coz sinkie women will never go through pains and woes with you when you gone poor one day...

[leakypipes]

Bro,
Here is how we stack up.

Nett combined household income: More than yours

Contribution to parents/siblings: About same

Petrol: Same. You no road tax? Insurance? Servicing?

Childcare for 2 kids: No wonder. Your kids are young.

Monthly credit card bill : I can't see your breakdown of $3-4k. Mine is slightly more.

Cash spending: I quit smoking, partying, binge drinking years ago. Now drink at home.

Insurance policies: about same

Total monthly expenditure: More than yours.

Savings: Little from monthly income recently. I do have sufficient past reserves.

Strange that your wife has no make up or beauty care costs.

My modus operandi is to get free clothings for my kids too. Things, if not broken are repaired and re-used. Thrift is key in everything. This is why I don't even have that occasional chilli crab (at a non air con kopi tiam).

Summary:
1. Your kids are young. As they get older, imho their expenses grow. By a lot. I don't know what you mean by "investing in their future". If it is not a cliche or an excuse to buy another condo, then surely they will need tuition soon.

Some argue tuition is a luxury. I beg to differ. Chinese tuition is a must imho. No chinese, T scores get dragged down. Languages have double weightages at PSLE.

Maths tuition a must too if you are serious about their future. Trust me, you won't know how to teach Heuristics. It is very complicated. When your child asks you 2 more times, you will head to MindStretcher.

I never had tuition all my life. But times are different. Our schools now boast how smart our children are. They never considered HOW each did it behind the scene.

Then the usual school bus fees, recess allowance, school excursions, books. Now multiply that by 3 for me.

2. It appears your parents or in laws do not stay with you. Imho, you are leeching off a hidden cost by making them take care of your kids. I don't. And, its not as though I can choose a cheaper option.

My parents stay with me. I have to provide food. And a helper to look after them and the kids. So I have a monthly food and maid cost.

The above two should account for the main difference in our costs. I don't splurge on myself or wife. Its all for the kids and parents. When my kids were younger and my parents not staying with me, I too could save. Now, no more.

(I am sure some stupid idiot is going to "advise" me not to be ungrateful but seriously use your friggin head. If I am ungrateful, they won't be taken care of....with the services of even a maid thrown in. Duh!)

Recently, I am struck with some health issues. Not uncommon when one is nearing 50. I can chiong all the way when I was in my late 30s like you (if I am guessing your age right). But at my age now, I start to ask questions.

Maybe you will ask the same questions many years later. Or maybe I did get my budgeting wrong.

you're not wrong i m younger than u. mid thirties and 10 years work experience.

no beauty care costs because.. there are none. my wife don't spend money on expensive cosmetics. all this sk2/lancome/loreal business, we have no part of it. in the past 12 months she has gone for 2 facials and 1 haircut. true story.

what i mean by investing for their future is that every cent we save is going towards a mixed portfolio of bonds, insurance, investment plans, endowments, mutual funds, etc... to build for their future education..

you're not wrong i am leeching off my in laws. not my father. or my siblings. they leech off me.

re credit card bill - you can breakdown lor... meals...3000 is basically meals during workweek and some weekends, plus the occasional spending on other stuff... which includes road tax, insurance, servicing...

your point about tuition... well... to each his own... it is your choice to spend... i don't share your views on tuition, but i will not judge you for it either...

my observation is that you did not plan for increased number of dependants. which i hve been planning from day one... helps a lot when my immediate family leeches off me the moment i earn any money (even when I was a student)... dont get me wrong, I love them, but they taught me some hard lessons about money....

bro - pls dont get me wrong, i am not criticising your lifestyle... what i am saying is if you are in an unhappy place, you should identify what you need to do to get to your happy place... because you come here kao peh, is not solving your issues.... if you didn't do future planning, you should be glad that you are in singapore instead of elsewhere...

i could have taken my mother's nationality... but now when i look back, i realise that if i had done that, i would have been fucked my whole life, instead of fucking the poor women of that country for a cheap bonk in singapore... =p

PS - since you mention chillicrab a lot of times, in the last 5 years, the number of times i have had chilli crab at a restaurant can count on one hand... my birthday... take my lao peh go eat... and recently take my mother in law go eat... thats abt it....

[Stealthfighter]

topic moved

[MoJoe313]

you're not wrong i m younger than u. mid thirties and 10 years work experience.

no beauty care costs because.. there are none. my wife don't spend money on expensive cosmetics. all this sk2/lancome/loreal business, we have no part of it. in the past 12 months she has gone for 2 facials and 1 haircut. true story.

what i mean by investing for their future is that every cent we save is going towards a mixed portfolio of bonds, insurance, investment plans, endowments, mutual funds, etc... to build for their future education..

you're not wrong i am leeching off my in laws. not my father. or my siblings. they leech off me.

re credit card bill - you can breakdown lor... meals...3000 is basically meals during workweek and some weekends, plus the occasional spending on other stuff... which includes road tax, insurance, servicing...

your point about tuition... well... to each his own... it is your choice to spend... i don't share your views on tuition, but i will not judge you for it either...

my observation is that you did not plan for increased number of dependants. which i hve been planning from day one... helps a lot when my immediate family leeches off me the moment i earn any money (even when I was a student)... dont get me wrong, I love them, but they taught me some hard lessons about money....

bro - pls dont get me wrong, i am not criticising your lifestyle... what i am saying is if you are in an unhappy place, you should identify what you need to do to get to your happy place... because you come here kao peh, is not solving your issues.... if you didn't do future planning, you should be glad that you are in singapore instead of elsewhere...

i could have taken my mother's nationality... but now when i look back, i realise that if i had done that, i would have been fucked my whole life, instead of fucking the poor women of that country for a cheap bonk in singapore... =p

PS - since you mention chillicrab a lot of times, in the last 5 years, the number of times i have had chilli crab at a restaurant can count on one hand... my birthday... take my lao peh go eat... and recently take my mother in law go eat... thats abt it....

Bro,
I like that your wife is not helping sk2/lancome/loreal grow their empires. Mine is really compassionate. She helps Channel too. And clothes. Its like OMG. With the number she has. She can go 3 years without repeating her clothes. Quarrelled over this too many times. Gave up. She wins. I just have 5 shirts, 3 pants and 1 shoe. We too grew up poor. She is over compensating for what she didn't have. I just accepted it.

You are probably right in that I didn't plan for increased dependents. How is one to react when my parents just showed up at my place broke and homeless. I just couldn't turn them away. The number of kids are also unexpected. So suddenly from a carefree single life, I found myself straddled with a huge family. It does get overwhelming at times. Because of my experience with poverty, I can take pain. But sometimes, it does get to you. That day I started this thread was one such rare day.

So in part, the heavy costs are a result of my decisions. But after numerous cost reviewing exercises, one can't deny it used to be easier for the middle class just years ago. I hope we are still called the Middle Class. It is not as though I cannot survive. But there is not much joy if one has to thrift all the time. It is hardly called Middle Class.

I can understand inflation. It is hyper inflation I can't deal with. QE and low interest rates take the cake. Bad policies increased the Gini coefficient.

1. Auctioning shopping malls land plots to developers directly, put certain essential goods at the mercy of capitalists. Owners try to meet their ROI by increasing rents. NTUC finest, Cold Storage etc pass down the cost to consumers. The game continues next year. Populate this format throughout the country, and this is why we are in this mess. There are fewer low cost wet market landlords to be found. Tell me, when was the last time you found Aeroplane chess, a game we used to play, for sale. It is not as though our kids want higher end toys. Low end toys just can't be found!

Same for food at food courts. The G realized this error by building 2 hawker centres. It recently decided to ramp up to 12. It showed the seriousness of it.

2. I am using the above as one of many policy errors I see happening. Don't want to mention others less I be interpreted as being politically partisan. I am not.

I wonder if we as a country are really richer when all we are trying to do is to purchase the same basket of goods.

It is a known phenomenon that our Gini is one of the highest in the world. There is a diminishing middle class. It is either super rich or poor. You may still be comfortable now. When this trend (or policy) continues, you just get pushed down the ladder one day. Unless you belong to the asset class, not the working man class. Good luck to us all.

[sammyboyfor]

Read this. http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?151153-The-RETIREMENT-thread

As long as you're not building wealth, you're going to struggle.

The purpose of work must be to add value to something that you own. If you draw a salary, all you're doing is helping someone else get rich.

[larue]

Read this. http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?151153-The-RETIREMENT-thread

As long as you're not building wealth, you're going to struggle.

The purpose of work must be to add value to something that you own. If you draw a salary, all you're doing is helping someone else get rich.

I actually wrote a fairly lengthy reply to the same effect before deleting it, because what the TS is in fact talking about is the erosion of his present standard of living from doing what he's always been doing.

And we all know that implementation of action to ensure future financial well-being, not just for TS but for most salaried workers, will necessarily require a further curtailment of present living habits. And that isn't quite the idea of the original post.

But it is absolutely true. Think of the blood, sweat and tears you all put into your salaried jobs. And then think about who the ultimate beneficiaries are. The decide whether you're happy with the status quo.

[sammyboyfor]

I actually wrote a fairly lengthy reply to the same effect before deleting it, because what the TS is in fact talking about is the erosion of his present standard of living from doing what he's always been doing.


As long as you're salaried, it's like running a tread mill with someone constantly cranking up the speed. You run faster and faster just to stay in the same spot.

The 80s and 90s were no different although everyone likes to refer to the good old days as being far better than the present.

I spent 12 years working for someone else and had nothing to show for it at the end except some meagre savings.

I decided to create my own little enterprise and retired 7 years later... not a multimillionaire but comfortable enough to not have to worry about money anymore.

[MoJoe313]

Read this. http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?151153-The-RETIREMENT-thread

As long as you're not building wealth, you're going to struggle.

The purpose of work must be to add value to something that you own. If you draw a salary, all you're doing is helping someone else get rich.

Boss,
I read your retirement thread before. Am reading it again as a refresher. I agree with its contents and advices.

Like you advocated, I do not work to enrich anyone but myself. This is why I can talk cock at this time of the day. LoL. The difficulty which is not explicit (or I didn't read far enough) is transiting to the asset class. A simple coffee shop costs $15m. Residential homes are cheaper at $1m a pop.

I just can't get over the idea of debt. Some dare take out 4 or 5 loans. I shudder at the thought of what banks will do when there is a negative equity.

Ironically, I like the CPF, and think it should be a major retirement tool. Just plonk in more than the MS. A lot more. No one can touch our RA. Not creditors, not children, sometimes not even ourselves. Managed by a triple A financially rated govt. Why not?

But my worry, if any is not retirement. Its the journey to retirement. :eek:

[larue]

Like you advocated, I do not work to enrich anyone but myself. This is why I can talk cock at this time of the day. LoL. The difficulty which is not explicit (or I didn't read far enough) is transiting to the asset class. A simple coffee shop costs $15m. Residential homes are cheaper at $1m a pop.

I just can't get over the idea of debt. Some dare take out 4 or 5 loans. I shudder at the thought of what banks will do when there is a negative equity

But you are enriching someone else. It is a fact and it doesn't matter how you feel about it.

Bring indebted from property investment is now a moot point for most salaried employees. Loan restrictions presently lock almost everyone out of property as an investment class.

There are so many other ways to invest your excess cash, if any, and your time.

[sammyboyfor]

I avoided debt by starting out providing a service which was not capital intensive and which I could do from home viz instant name cards. I grew it from there without having to take on massive debt.

Boss,
I read your retirement thread before. Am reading it again as a refresher. I agree with its contents and advices.

Like you advocated, I do not work to enrich anyone but myself. This is why I can talk cock at this time of the day. LoL. The difficulty which is not explicit (or I didn't read far enough) is transiting to the asset class. A simple coffee shop costs $15m. Residential homes are cheaper at $1m a pop.

I just can't get over the idea of debt. Some dare take out 4 or 5 loans. I shudder at the thought of what banks will do when there is a negative equity.

Ironically, I like the CPF, and think it should be a major retirement tool. Just plonk in more than the MS. A lot more. No one can touch our RA. Not creditors, not children, sometimes not even ourselves. Managed by a triple A financially rated govt. Why not?

But my worry, if any is not retirement. Its the journey to retirement. :eek:

[MoJoe313]

I avoided debt by starting out providing a service which was not capital intensive and which I could do from home viz instant name cards. I grew it from there without having to take on massive debt.

But boss, businesses don't last. Unless you own a bank. Assets do. I think you mean slowly accumulating money to own an asset? It can be a painfully long process...

[MoJoe313]

But you are enriching someone else. It is a fact and it doesn't matter how you feel about it.

Bring indebted from property investment is now a moot point for most salaried employees. Loan restrictions presently lock almost everyone out of property as an investment class.

There are so many other ways to invest your excess cash, if any, and your time.

How am I enriching someone else when I am not a salaried worker? :confused:

[larue]

How am I enriching someone else when I am not a salaried worker? :confused:

Ahh, my bad. I must have missed something there. Apologies.

[sammyboyfor]

But boss, businesses don't last. Unless you own a bank. Assets do. I think you mean slowly accumulating money to own an asset? It can be a painfully long process...

Businesses have value which have nothing to do with physical assets. Businesses don't last that's why you have to work hard and then cash out.

My first business was sold for $50,000. The value was based on the balance sheet and future earning potential. The assets of the business were only worth $5000 which consisted of a 2 laser printers and a computer which had already been almost fully depreciated.

The 2nd business, a web and graphic design company was sold for close to $500,000 dollars. Again the physical assets were not worth much.

I then put $200,000 into a computer peripheral start up with 4 other investors. When it went public we managed a 10x return on investment.

All this was over a period of less than 7 years and it earned me far more than slogging away for 12 years for someone else.

[leakypipes]

Bro,
I like that your wife is not helping sk2/lancome/loreal grow their empires. Mine is really compassionate. She helps Channel too. And clothes. Its like OMG. With the number she has. She can go 3 years without repeating her clothes. Quarrelled over this too many times. Gave up. She wins. I just have 5 shirts, 3 pants and 1 shoe. We too grew up poor. She is over compensating for what she didn't have. I just accepted it.

You are probably right in that I didn't plan for increased dependents. How is one to react when my parents just showed up at my place broke and homeless. I just couldn't turn them away. The number of kids are also unexpected. So suddenly from a carefree single life, I found myself straddled with a huge family. It does get overwhelming at times. Because of my experience with poverty, I can take pain. But sometimes, it does get to you. That day I started this thread was one such rare day.

So in part, the heavy costs are a result of my decisions. But after numerous cost reviewing exercises, one can't deny it used to be easier for the middle class just years ago. I hope we are still called the Middle Class. It is not as though I cannot survive. But there is not much joy if one has to thrift all the time. It is hardly called Middle Class.

I can understand inflation. It is hyper inflation I can't deal with. QE and low interest rates take the cake. Bad policies increased the Gini coefficient.

1. Auctioning shopping malls land plots to developers directly, put certain essential goods at the mercy of capitalists. Owners try to meet their ROI by increasing rents. NTUC finest, Cold Storage etc pass down the cost to consumers. The game continues next year. Populate this format throughout the country, and this is why we are in this mess. There are fewer low cost wet market landlords to be found. Tell me, when was the last time you found Aeroplane chess, a game we used to play, for sale. It is not as though our kids want higher end toys. Low end toys just can't be found!

Same for food at food courts. The G realized this error by building 2 hawker centres. It recently decided to ramp up to 12. It showed the seriousness of it.

2. I am using the above as one of many policy errors I see happening. Don't want to mention others less I be interpreted as being politically partisan. I am not.

I wonder if we as a country are really richer when all we are trying to do is to purchase the same basket of goods.

It is a known phenomenon that our Gini is one of the highest in the world. There is a diminishing middle class. It is either super rich or poor. You may still be comfortable now. When this trend (or policy) continues, you just get pushed down the ladder one day. Unless you belong to the asset class, not the working man class. Good luck to us all.

You don't have any neighbourhood shops around you? I recently bought those Styrofoam airplanes/birds for my older child. Total cost $3... In return for hours of fun.

There is still a middle class. But, you are middle class, living like a upper class. Of course you cannot turn your parents away. I also wouldn't do that. But does it cost that much to feed them?

How much money are u giving your kids for pocket money? Have you considered cutting that down? Ask them cut down on other spending?

The middle class lifestyle is available in Singapore... If my siblings can live a comfy lifestyle on a fraction of what you have (their kids older than mine)... I find it hard to believe you cannot.

[MoJoe313]

You don't have any neighbourhood shops around you? I recently bought those Styrofoam airplanes/birds for my older child. Total cost $3... In return for hours of fun.

There is still a middle class. But, you are middle class, living like a upper class. Of course you cannot turn your parents away. I also wouldn't do that. But does it cost that much to feed them?

How much money are u giving your kids for pocket money? Have you considered cutting that down? Ask them cut down on other spending?

The middle class lifestyle is available in Singapore... If my siblings can live a comfy lifestyle on a fraction of what you have (their kids older than mine)... I find it hard to believe you cannot.

Don't see how I am living like an upper class when I have only 5 shirts and my only extravagance is enrichment classes for my kids. Nonetheless, an enriching discourse. I have learnt alot from our exchanges. Thanks bro.:)

[MoJoe313]

Businesses have value which have nothing to do with physical assets. Businesses don't last that's why you have to work hard and then cash out.

My first business was sold for $50,000. The value was based on the balance sheet and future earning potential. The assets of the business were only worth $5000 which consisted of a 2 laser printers and a computer which had already been almost fully depreciated.

The 2nd business, a web and graphic design company was sold for close to $500,000 dollars. Again the physical assets were not worth much.

I then put $200,000 into a computer peripheral start up with 4 other investors. When it went public we managed a 10x return on investment.

All this was over a period of less than 7 years and it earned me far more than slogging away for 12 years for someone else.

Ah. Smartster. Trading businesses and cashing out. No wonder I am not getting this part of the equation right.:confused:

I will bear the lesson in mind. Thanks boss.

[Hokkienkia]

haiya mai di di kao peh cheng hu la. wu eng meh? tik tui tong cho cheng hu ma si sio siang eh la.

bo lui? cho part time la. hun ki mai sio, jiu mai lim, zar bor ma mai pia! :eek::D

[MoJoe313]

haiya mai di di kao peh cheng hu la. wu eng meh? tik tui tong cho cheng hu ma si sio siang eh la.

bo lui? cho part time la. hun ki mai sio, jiu mai lim, zar bor ma mai pia! :eek::D

Ah hia,
Hun ki zha zha bo sio liao. Zar bor ah bo piak. Kwai kwai teh chu pak puay ki, kua kia. Bo kao peh, manna si Singapore lang. Wu a lao lang kong wa lang si Champion Grumblers. Wa ba lu tia eee a wei, confirm plus chop nia

[leakypipes]

Don't see how I am living like an upper class when I have only 5 shirts and my only extravagance is enrichment classes for my kids. Nonetheless, an enriching discourse. I have learnt alot from our exchanges. Thanks bro.:)

Not referring to your possessions bro... But your dependents... Seriously I would cut the enrichment classes.. Support their eca... And provide bare minimum tuition...

I think you want the best for your kids.. But what is best for them is to have a happy and healthy father who can cope with adversity, so that they learn to do the same by example...

You seem to be caught in the Singaporean (not Singapore) trap... I believe you can break out... And if you do, they will also...

[leakypipes]

Just to share with you also, there was a period where my dad was asking for more money... He want try start a business...

After awhile I told him, no more. Either he shape up or I cut him off. He had to be realistic about the prospects. It was painful for me...but it had to be done. Otherwise it would have created a drain..

[MoJoe313]

Edited out

[kraam]

Dude, what the ts is talking about is not about the amount of money he is earning, but rather his only wish is that his lifestyle can be maintained. A govt's duty is to improve the lives of others, if they cannot, at least maintain the standard as is across all segments of society - and not degrade it. But our current system is doing totally opposite, causing the segments to change greatly, making the rich richer, the middle and poor poorer.

So Kraam, dun be so quick to mouth off who is worse off economically. that wasn't the topic here. If you wish, create another thread telling us how affected are you in your income group instead. We are all in the same boat afterall.

It shows u're quite stupid to even reply such a thing. So it is the govt's problem that you can't really control your own fucking expenditure? that's all what u're really stupidly fucking saying.

[Hokkienkia]

Ah hia,
Hun ki zha zha bo sio liao. Zar bor ah bo piak. Kwai kwai teh chu pak puay ki, kua kia. Bo kao peh, manna si Singapore lang. Wu a lao lang kong wa lang si Champion Grumblers. Wa ba lu tia eee a wei, confirm plus chop nia

lao hia, wa hmm si gong le la. wa si gong ji tao eh lang si bei su ka kao peh cheng hu. kao peh leow ma si sio siang.

singapo lang kao peh kao bu lumber 1! wa ma si singapo lang! hurhurhur :D

[Hokkienkia]

ji tao eh lang si bei su ka sio meh hor? lim beh na teh beh tao, ji tao si pa jian eh ti hng ah si chuay zar bor eh ti hng? knn..

[Fudge]

The is the cycle and monotony of life here.

[sammyboyfor]

Ah. Smartster. Trading businesses and cashing out. No wonder I am not getting this part of the equation right.:confused:

I will bear the lesson in mind. Thanks boss.

You can't own a business forever because all businesses have a "use by" date.

Technologies change, environments change, the business owner changes as time goes by.

A business is no different from any other form of asset. EG property is valued based upon the rental or lease return it can fetch. Businesses are valued based upon revenue stream and profitability.

If you don't cash out or go public at some point how are you going to realise the value of your hard work?

[godsfury]

How easy it is to just blame everyone or the gahment for how tough our life is. Do open your eyes to look at other countries to see how lucky we are. Don't compare. Be happy.

How much is enough in life? What are u after? The pleasures in life or more?

[Mora1Epitome]

Vote them out!

[oxlv]

one must always be contented with what one has & must never be greedy.

''don't bite off more than you can chew''

&

''don't wear such a big hat if you don't have such a big head''

[kraam]

How easy it is to just blame everyone or the gahment for how tough our life is. Do open your eyes to look at other countries to see how lucky we are. Don't compare. Be happy.

How much is enough in life? What are u after? The pleasures in life or more?

exactly. some bros here their brains really empty.

[Orchinno]

A honest hardworking couple trying to provide is called gaining sympathy, whereas a philandering bro telling his sexcapades here is worshipped? Haha. Power lah bro. But lets study your numbers.

Now bro, kindly return the honesty in reviewing my added figures. Lets see who is dishonest? Imho, you never ran a household. Thank you.

Err. that's my guess of your household income. Mine is a lot different from yours and is actually closer to leaky pipes.

As for sexual escapade, being that, done that long ago. Went thru a very bad patch in familial relationships but came out straight. See my power/points :) always in moderation.

Housing Loans : 3K per month
Transport : 500 per month, gas + amortized maintenance
Utilities : 360 per month
Conservancy : 330 per month
Credit Card bill : 1.6K per month (grocery, weekend meals for parents, misc)
Grocery at Wet Market : 600 per month
Telecom/CableTV bills : 200 per month
Pocket money for 3 kids : 400 per month
Parent's money : 500 per month

Total 7.5 K per month on my income only.

My wife pays for the maid's salary and levy (labour substitution). But everything else I bear, ie food, lodging, utilities and so.

Like leak pipes, I choose a very good wife. My family barely spent more than 2000 dollars on clothings in a whole year. And she does not use comestics and such, so that's one chunk of expenses not incurred. (But then that would be out of her pocket, not mine)

In fact, the bulk of my income goes to paying off the bank which I cannot avoid as we need to be close to the schools that the kids are in. If not, I can reduce my expense further down to 6.0 K per month.

Whether you believe me or not, I really don't care. As leaky pipe has done, we are showing you that the expenses can be managed. And I believe in paying forward, so I don't take loans for anything, even the car. The only thing that could not be avoid is the housing loan as that sum is too large for me to save in reasonable time to be able to buy a house.

I have live my life frugally and will continue to do so. Sometimes eye red red see the big bosses here, but always just remind myself that this is my karma and I to to live thru this cycle of the wheel to pay back those I owe in the last.

[MoJoe313]

Do open your eyes to look at other countries to see how lucky we are. Don't compare. Be happy.


When one is consumed with political inclination, he doesn't even realize how stupid he sounds. "Open eyes look at other countries and don't compare." It's an oxymoron statement.

[Orchinno]

1. How come you got maid but you don't include her cost. Ok, add it in.
Maid monthly salary 560 dollars only.

2. LoL. Add clothes cost.
Between her, me and our kids, we don't spent more than 2000 dollars a year on clothings and shoes. I am still going to work in shirts and pants that I bought 3 - 4 years ago. I just add 1 or 2 pieces whenever Robinson sales comes around GSS and my shoes last forever.

3. Her make up and beauty care are important. Add in.
Err. her expense, not in my accounts. but she does not use lipsticks, powder or anything like that. I believe her beauty expenses not more 60 dollars per month mostly for skin whitener.

4. Your kids live on milk only?! Can exchange? Mine need toys and clothes. Add in.
Toys only twice a year, X'mas and birthdays and limit to not more than 50 dollars. So, 50 x 2 x 3 /12 = 25 dollars per month. Clothings as explain above. Most of the clothing cost comes at the beginning of the school year, to buy replacement uniform and shoes and Chinese New Year.

5. Parents allowance missing. Add in.
I am assuming in your calculations since they are staying with you, they are not drawing an allowance. In my case, my parents and her parents stay on their own, and they are still working despite past retirement age. I inherit my thrift and work ethnics from them.

6. Parents in law allowance missing. Forget this and your wife gives you hell. Add in.
Her expenses again. I believe it's in a range of 1K - 1.5K. And there's no hell, we are amicable about this. She supports her parents and I support mine.

7. Waa. Your home air con no need service?
We don't use the aircon very much, so my utilities is already half of yours and it hardly requires servicing. Seriously, I don't know how you manage to rack up an utility bill of 600 plus dollars. My electricity bill is at around 160 a month, water another 60, gas for cooking another 60 and the rest the normal charges.

8. $100 car maintenance seem low. No road tax and insurance? Teach me lobang can?
Good point, i miss out the road tax and insurance. I service my car 3 times yearly at about 400 per service, so 100 dollars a month is sufficient. However, adding road tax and insurance probably bump transport expenses to 360 + 100 + 200 = 660 per month. Of course, this does not include unforseen repairs but that is out of the discretionary account.

9. Er....you no buy personal insurance ah? Add in.
No life insurance. Only investment linked insurance with medical riders which comes to about 400 per month. I intend to fully benefit from medishield should I need it. So insurance is not an expense, but a form of investment. In fact, one of my policy just mature after 10 years and i collected back 12K.

Just to add more, we travel overseas once a year to nearby countries from whatever is left in the discretionary account.

[AAdam]

When one is consumed with political inclination, he doesn't even realize how stupid he sounds. "Open eyes look at other countries and don't compare." It's an oxymoron statement.

Apparently,whatever advice or thoughts or sentiments raised will always be countered by a rebuttal.
Actually, with the wisdom,knowledge, maturity and life experience,TS knows jolly well how to solve and manage his situation. My humble view is whether is he willing to bite the bullet, make some changes in family lifestyle and just act and do it.
Basically, its just either increase income &/or reduce expenditure.No 2 ways about it.

[MoJoe313]

Err. that's my guess of your household income. Mine is a lot different from yours and is actually closer to leaky pipes.

As for sexual escapade, being that, done that long ago. Went thru a very bad patch in familial relationships but came out straight. See my power/points :) always in moderation.

Housing Loans : 3K per month
Transport : 500 per month, gas + amortized maintenance
Utilities : 360 per month
Conservancy : 330 per month
Credit Card bill : 1.6K per month (grocery, weekend meals for parents, misc)
Grocery at Wet Market : 600 per month
Telecom/CableTV bills : 200 per month
Pocket money for 3 kids : 400 per month
Parent's money : 500 per month

Total 7.5 K per month on my income only.

My wife pays for the maid's salary and levy (labour substitution). But everything else I bear, ie food, lodging, utilities and so.

Like leak pipes, I choose a very good wife. My family barely spent more than 2000 dollars on clothings in a whole year. And she does not use comestics and such, so that's one chunk of expenses not incurred. (But then that would be out of her pocket, not mine)

In fact, the bulk of my income goes to paying off the bank which I cannot avoid as we need to be close to the schools that the kids are in. If not, I can reduce my expense further down to 6.0 K per month.

Whether you believe me or not, I really don't care. As leaky pipe has done, we are showing you that the expenses can be managed. And I believe in paying forward, so I don't take loans for anything, even the car. The only thing that could not be avoid is the housing loan as that sum is too large for me to save in reasonable time to be able to buy a house.

I have live my life frugally and will continue to do so. Sometimes eye red red see the big bosses here, but always just remind myself that this is my karma and I to to live thru this cycle of the wheel to pay back those I owe in the last.

Ok. Lets add your maids cost in. Then it's $8k. Am I right? Let's imagine you never went on holidays or bought a new TV. Your monthly cost is fixed at $8k all the time. You achieve some savings. You think you have done well, patted yourself on your own back. You think you are getting by fine.

Then one day, 15 years from now, when you are getting old, will you not ask yourself why are you achieving so meagre results? Where has the bulk of your money gone to? That's what I am asking.

[MoJoe313]

Apparently,whatever advice or thoughts or sentiments raised will always be countered by a rebuttal.
Actually, with the wisdom,knowledge, maturity and life experience,TS knows jolly well how to solve and manage his situation. My humble view is whether is he willing to bite the bullet, make some changes in family lifestyle and just act and do it.
Basically, its just either increase income &/or reduce expenditure.No 2 ways about it.

Help me out bro. I am really trying hard not to be stubborn or to sound proud. Why is it almost everyone assumes it is a situation where "I am managing things poorly"?

If you must know, I have a cash reserve of 15 years. Cold hard cash in the bank. Not unliquidated assets, which is separate. I can go 15 years without income and still carry on this lifestyle. That's alot of zeros. I am not mis-managing. Nor boasting. Just alluding to the point that cost of living is rising very fast. Is it very hard to understand?

[sammyboyfor]

I can go 15 years without income and still carry on this lifestyle. That's alot of zeros. I am not mis-managing. Nor boasting. Just alluding to the point that cost of living is rising very fast. Is it very hard to understand?

You are mismanaging if you start spending the principal.

I don't touch my cash reserves. I spend only the yield.

[leakypipes]

Help me out bro. I am really trying hard not to be stubborn or to sound proud. Why is it almost everyone assumes it is a situation where "I am managing things poorly"?

If you must know, I have a cash reserve of 15 years. Cold hard cash in the bank. Not unliquidated assets, which is separate. I can go 15 years without income and still carry on this lifestyle. That's alot of zeros. I am not mis-managing. Nor boasting. Just alluding to the point that cost of living is rising very fast. Is it very hard to understand?

Bro - calm down. At the end of the day, we read your post as, my life is difficult because of X and Y and Z... So our reaction is to try and understand and offer you solutions.

But if you say your point is to draw attention to the idea (not fact) that life is terrible in Singapore for the middle class, and not necessarily yourself (or not just yourself) because of rising costs, then my response is, we don't feel the pinch like you. Maybe it's because we planned/are planning for tougher times everyday. Maybe it's because we somehow feel happier with our lives.

If you put out an idea, then you have to be prepared that your idea will be challenged. We are not trying to offend you. Well, I'm not trying to offend you la. How you feel is not necessarily reality.

[sammyboyfor]

We are not trying to offend you. Well, I'm not trying to offend you la. How you feel is not necessarily reality.

There is nothing wrong with trying to offend people. It makes life a lot more fun.

[leakypipes]

There is nothing wrong with trying to offend people. It makes life a lot more fun.

I do offend people intentionally. Just saying this isn't one of those times. =D

[AAdam]

Help me out bro. I am really trying hard not to be stubborn or to sound proud. Why is it almost everyone assumes it is a situation where "I am managing things poorly"?

If you must know, I have a cash reserve of 15 years. Cold hard cash in the bank. Not unliquidated assets, which is separate. I can go 15 years without income and still carry on this lifestyle. That's alot of zeros. I am not mis-managing. Nor boasting. Just alluding to the point that cost of living is rising very fast. Is it very hard to understand?

Honestly, you are in a much better position than most of us. There are 2 parts to your issues.
First, you are managing poorly or mis-managing your finances. Why on earth are you holding on to 15 years of Cash reserve? I might not know the details cos you hourself must must why you did it. At most,a savvy investor will only hold 1 year cash reaserve,max 2 years. The opportunity cost of your action is that you are only a mearge peanut returns on your excess cash which obviously cannot keep pace with inflation,literally deroding your purchasing power and in effect diminishes your real value of your principal. Make better use of your cash reserves.

Second, cost of living is high or not is subjective and relative. If your income or return or yield is growing at a faster and higher rate than cost of living, will you still think that cost of living is high? Of course not.

Like a wise old man once said:"Nothing in this world is expensive. It is just that I am earing too little."

[MoJoe313]

You are mismanaging if you start spending the principal.

I don't touch my cash reserves. I spend only the yield.

Boss,
Why are you always one step ahead??

Ya, I am frustrated because it's coming out of my reserves, not yield. A$1m gets you only A$30k a year. Friggin all time low interest. I need 3 fully paid condos so that I can depend on the yields alone. And I am not there yet. :confused:

[MoJoe313]

Ok. How about we do this. With no disrespect to the bros here, can the next person who wants to advise me on managing cost, can you please examine your cash reserves?

Financial experts say you must have 6 months cash reserves in case you lose a job. Do you have 6 months? 1 year? 5 years? 15 years. If you have >10 years then we talk. Then I will know we are both talking about apples, not oranges.

It's frustrating talking to amateurs who say costs are low, life is good but when you ask them how much reserves they have, they do not even have 2 years savings. My question to them then is what if you or your wife suffer a stroke? Or cancer or diabetes? How is your 2 years reserves going to see your kids through with the current cost of living? You still sure cost of living is reasonable here?

[sammyboyfor]

Boss,
Why are you always one step ahead??

Ya, I am frustrated because it's coming out of my reserves, not yield. A$1m gets you only A$30k a year. Friggin all time low interest. I need 3 fully paid condos so that I can depend on the yields alone. And I am not there yet. :confused:

I'm averaging about 5% on cash deposits but only 10% of my portfolio is cash.

Overall portfolio yield over the past decade is about 8% before tax. I've stuck to the low risk investments.

The trick with cash is to lock in longer term rates whenever they go above 6%.

[Ngengheng]

Divorcee at age of 42....Breakdown on my monthly expanses

Income :8k
Bank Interest : $875 (700K in FD based on 1.5 per cent interest )
Parents : $600
Rental Income : $1800
Mortgage : $1075 (CPF)
Sexapade :$200
Massage : $200
Insurance :$200
Children Maintenance : $500
Car : Fully Paid
Petrol : $200 (Pump in JB)
Utilities : $200
Road tax : $50
Car Insurance : $59
Miscellaneous : $300
Savings about 6 to 8 k per month and it depends on other expenditure like holidays etc........


I am staying with parents . Their house is fully paid.

[larue]

I'm averaging about 5% on cash deposits but only 10% of my portfolio is cash.

Overall portfolio yield over the past decade is about 8% before tax. I've stuck to the low risk investments.

The trick with cash is to lock in longer term rates whenever they go above 6%.


That sort of yield in low risk investments is only available in markets most people in Singapore won't go, nor even know where to begin looking.

Failing that, I do know some penny stocks trading at 4cents which I have analyzed using my candles at home and some fundamental analysis indicating
everyone should buy and buy until the price reaches 8cents before selling.

Not less than 8cents so that I can dump, at 7 cents, the ones I bought at 3cents already!

[MoJoe313]

I'm averaging about 5% on cash deposits but only 10% of my portfolio is cash.

Overall portfolio yield over the past decade is about 8% before tax. I've stuck to the low risk investments.

The trick with cash is to lock in longer term rates whenever they go above 6%.

How did you get 6% on cash?! You locked in aussie FD years ago?

Boss, what you think about the Singapore Savings Bond?

[MoJoe313]

Divorcee at age of 42....Breakdown on my monthly expanses

Income :8k
Bank Interest : $875 (700K in FD based on 1.5 per cent interest )
Parents : $600
Rental Income : $1800
Mortgage : $1075 (CPF)
Sexapade :$200
Massage : $200
Insurance :$200
Children Maintenance : $500
Car : Fully Paid
Petrol : $200 (Pump in JB)
Utilities : $200
Road tax : $50
Car Insurance : $59
Miscellaneous : $300
Savings about 6 to 8 k per month and it depends on other expenditure like holidays etc........


I am staying with parents . Their house is fully paid.

Bro,
You are doing good financially. No food cost? Unfortunately, my child cost is not $500 a month. Maid itself is already more. I wish I can bunk in with my parents and rent out my place.....

[Orchinno]

Boss,
Why are you always one step ahead??

Ya, I am frustrated because it's coming out of my reserves, not yield. A$1m gets you only A$30k a year. Friggin all time low interest. I need 3 fully paid condos so that I can depend on the yields alone. And I am not there yet. :confused:

As per my first post, you have never been upfront with the forum since your first post. You don't belong to us middle class folks when you have squirrel away 15 years of annual income.

I seriously question you motives for trying to pass of yourself as a middle class person.

[larue]

Individual cap on SSB is likely to be low enough as to be meaningless to anyone with more than a moderate amount available to invest anyway.

[MoJoe313]

Individual cap on SSB is likely to be low enough as to be meaningless to anyone with more than a moderate amount available to invest anyway.

Yea. That's what I am thinking. But the cap is not known yet. So lets see. It should give 2-3% yield. It will easily ousts FD rates, with more flexibility than FD.

I am in this strange situation where I find it makes more sense to dump cash into SA instead. I will get it back by 55 anyway. Any excess over MS. 4% is good. Triple A financially accredited govt. What's to lose?? What you think?

[godsfury]

When one is consumed with political inclination, he doesn't even realize how stupid he sounds. "Open eyes look at other countries and don't compare." It's an oxymoron statement.


Ok. Life is horrible! Sux to be u. Soooo horrible.

[larue]

Yea. That's what I am thinking. But the cap is not known yet. So lets see. It should give 2-3% yield. It will easily ousts FD rates, with more flexibility than FD.

I am in this strange situation where I find it makes more sense to dump cash into SA instead. I will get it back by 55 anyway. Any excess over MS. 4% is good. Triple A financially accredited govt. What's to lose?? What you think?

That probably won't get you your Ferrari! But if you aren't that far off 55, have neither the time, inclination nor risk appetite to explore other financial opportunities, there are many worse things you can do with that money.

Compounding interest, people really need to not just know it's power, but feel it.

[sammyboyfor]

How did you get 6% on cash?! You locked in aussie FD years ago?

Boss, what you think about the Singapore Savings Bond?

Locked into NZD. Deposit yields have ranged from 5% to 10%.

[MoJoe313]

That probably won't get you your Ferrari! But if you aren't that far off 55, have neither the time, inclination nor risk appetite to explore other financial opportunities, there are many worse things you can do with that money.

Compounding interest, people really need to not just know it's power, but feel it.

Ferrari?! You kidding me bro. I am just trying to resuscitate my 9 y.o. sedan to fetch my kids to classes and my parents to hospital, and folks here are already complaining how excessive it is.

Ya, I noticed the power of compounding interest. That 4% in SA is damn attractive.....if people bother to look past their political affinity.

[MoJoe313]

As per my first post, you have never been upfront with the forum since your first post. You don't belong to us middle class folks when you have squirrel away 15 years of annual income.

I seriously question you motives for trying to pass of yourself as a middle class person.

If you think I belong to the upper class, you seriously need to get your head examined.

[nickbaston]

My old retired parents stay with me. They have no savings. Food, medical bills, expenses, allowances. All borne by wife and me. When you count income per person in my household, it is not alot. No lavish lifestyle....nothing of that sort. I can't kick my kids or parents out....

U are a very nice man.

Your kids and parents are lucky to have you.

[MoJoe313]

U are a very nice man.

Your kids and parents are lucky to have you.

Thank you bro. I am not doing anything spectacular. Bros like leakypipes, Orchinno, NgengHeng are also taking care of their parents and kids. Maybe it is in our Asian culture to do so :)

[MoJoe313]

Wow. Over dinner, my mom told me of a distant relative who just suffered a stroke. He is 41 y.o. His left side paralyzed. This is the 3rd person I know of who suffered a stroke in his early 40s. It is practically game over career wise. Good luck to you if you have insufficient savings and find our cost of living so acceptable.

[nickbaston]

Wow. Over dinner, my mom told me of a distant relative who just suffered a stroke. He is 41 y.o. His left side paralyzed. This is the 3rd person I know of who suffered a stroke in his early 40s. It is practically game over career wise. Good luck to you if you have insufficient savings and find our cost of living so acceptable.

my friend 49. died in his sleep. No any past illness. Very strong and stuff.

That is life man. His brother no money and still have to prepare his funeral.

We all chip in to settle his last journey. This is life.

[DHopper]

Help me out bro. I am really trying hard not to be stubborn or to sound proud. Why is it almost everyone assumes it is a situation where "I am managing things poorly"?

If you must know, I have a cash reserve of 15 years. Cold hard cash in the bank. Not unliquidated assets, which is separate. I can go 15 years without income and still carry on this lifestyle. That's alot of zeros. I am not mis-managing. Nor boasting. Just alluding to the point that cost of living is rising very fast. Is it very hard to understand?

You are mismanaging if you start spending the principal.

I don't touch my cash reserves. I spend only the yield.

All I can say is, you all very rich :eek:

Different people different expectations luh.. this is TS' standard of middle class :D:D:D

[sadfa]

Ts

I agree n sympathise wif you till t part bt 15 yr reserves.

I know many with gd income bt living hand to mouth.
Depending on bonuses to make ends meet.
Little or no reserves. N nt living wild lifestyles.

I know eating off yr reserves nt recommended bt 10 yrs reserves i bet makes you 1% of the population.

N yr in 50s. The older u r, the lesser reserves you need. Dun tell me you need 40 yrs reserves in yr 60s.

I know ppl only pay for 1 kids university education.
N local univ gt loans. Start paying when t kid get job.

So There are many worse off than you.

[ludwig19]

Haha bro, if you consider yourself middle class, then i'm fucked!
15 years reserve?? Lets see...assuming (just assuming, as you have mentioned that your household per mth is more than 10k) that you're getting a very conservative 4k/mth, thats 48k/year. 15 years reserve will be $720,000.00. IN CASH. Now how many of us bros in here honestly even have half that amount??
If thats middle income, then i have just been demoted to the low income group.

[sadfa]

Ya. Assuming 10k, its 1.8 million
Assuming half, its 900k

thats even more than striking lottery which is like 600 - 700k

[topcook1]

my friend 49. died in his sleep. No any past illness. Very strong and stuff.

That is life man. His brother no money and still have to prepare his funeral.

We all chip in to settle his last journey. This is life.


Thats good way of dying too...I also hope will die in my sleep too no need to struggle and have suffering....

[MoJoe313]

Haha bro, if you consider yourself middle class, then i'm fucked!
15 years reserve?? Lets see...assuming (just assuming, as you have mentioned that your household per mth is more than 10k) that you're getting a very conservative 4k/mth, thats 48k/year. 15 years reserve will be $720,000.00. IN CASH. Now how many of us bros in here honestly even have half that amount??
If thats middle income, then i have just been demoted to the low income group.

If you were following this thread, one bro here has $700K in FD. Another has >$2m. Is it uncommon? No. It really depends on your age. If you are in your 20s, don't expect this. These bros are >40 y.o. and hence advanced in their careers/savings. Are they rich? I don't think so. I know many with $5-10m. Are they rich? They openly confess to me they are not.

There are many paid employees who do $500k to $3m a year. Are they rich? Maybe. I tell you who I think is rich. The business owners who own assets. I once paid rent to a landlord who had to flip an exercise book to locate my commercial property. I was located on his 40+ page. That's how many commercial properties that family owned.

So if you are think you last it out in this cost game. Feel free to. Another cycle of better off immigrants will eclipse you when you are done eclipsing some now. Don't wait till 50+ then ask serious questions.

[MoJoe313]

Thats good way of dying too...I also hope will die in my sleep too no need to struggle and have suffering....

I rather complain first. Someone said we are Champion Grumblers. So be it.:cool:

[numberseven]

Help me out bro. I am really trying hard not to be stubborn or to sound proud. Why is it almost everyone assumes it is a situation where "I am managing things poorly"?

If you must know, I have a cash reserve of 15 years. Cold hard cash in the bank. Not unliquidated assets, which is separate. I can go 15 years without income and still carry on this lifestyle. That's alot of zeros. I am not mis-managing. Nor boasting. Just alluding to the point that cost of living is rising very fast. Is it very hard to understand?

cash reserve of 15 years still say so much, then most of sg people how?

if really cannot maintain, downgrade abit of your current lifestyle la.

[topcook1]

If you were following this thread, one bro here has $700K in FD. Another has >$2m. Is it uncommon? No. It really depends on your age. If you are in your 20s, don't expect this. These bros are >40 y.o. and hence advanced in their careers/savings. Are they rich? I don't think so. I know many with $5-10m. Are they rich? They openly confess to me they are not.

There are many paid employees who do $500k to $3m a year. Are they rich? Maybe. I tell you who I think is rich. The business owners who own assets. I once paid rent to a landlord who had to flip an exercise book to locate my commercial property. I was located on his 40+ page. That's how many commercial properties that family owned.

So if you are think you last it out in this cost game. Feel free to. Another cycle of better off immigrants will eclipse you when you are done eclipsing some now. Don't wait till 50+ then ask serious questions.


What I had observe is that lots of young family are struggling ....High commitments etc....Seriously to save is not easy . I had know lots of people have a combine income of more than 10k and yet bank savings is zero.......

[kuasimi]

How easy it is to just blame everyone or the gahment for how tough our life is. Do open your eyes to look at other countries to see how lucky we are. Don't compare. Be happy.

How much is enough in life? What are u after? The pleasures in life or more?

PAP IBs are real hypocrites. If you do well, it is PAP's credit, not your own effort. If you do badly, it is your own fault, nothing to do with PAP policies.

Why PAP like to compare their pay with top private sector pay rather than other developed nations politicians pay?

Why PAP's appraisal is every 5 years instead of every year?

Why PAP Ministers said need good elections mandate before reducing cost of living? This means PAP can reduce cost of living but want to hold citizens to ransom.

Ask PAP MPs to stop whining about their pay too.

[MoJoe313]

What I had observe is that lots of young family are struggling ....High commitments etc....Seriously to save is not easy . I had know lots of people have a combine income of more than 10k and yet bank savings is zero.......

Bro, ya. It took me 14 pages to explain what you said. :confused:

[ludwig19]

well lets see...hands up anyone in here who can go 15 years without working while still able to maintain current lifestyle. wanna see if its really that common.

[kuasimi]

What I had observe is that lots of young family are struggling ....High commitments etc....Seriously to save is not easy . I had know lots of people have a combine income of more than 10k and yet bank savings is zero.......

Experts had already said these commitments are the same as any other developed nations. The entire world had improved materially, not just Singapore have smartphones, iPads and cars. PAP IBs will say to have gadgets is PAP's credit.

But experts admitted cars, housing, education, transport, health, medical etc are especially expensive in Singapore. Even Hollywood celebrities were shocked how expensive a car in Singapore can be.

[kuasimi]

[TRUTH REVEALED] Official Figures Revealed 7.4% SINGAPOREAN GRADUATES Under 30 Are UNEMPLOYED!!!!!



http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/%5Btruth-revealed%5D-official-figures-revealed-7-4%25-singaporean-graduates-under-30-unemployed-4867601.html

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-PI1Y_NX8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFzPSzHmHrk

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vshMBvcfQw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lgzCdqtscA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABZx_gnVlP4

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDSDdKFpRQc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4KyEE0R9Rc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfnyayx_7u8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdXH5llsQ5c


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFlENeTb56E

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FST5wuj1tvs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTnSQ7TNrtU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mufeBJSLhms


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZggPSqHVFFw

[indoboii]

@ts, move to indonesia bro!! you will be multi billionaire in rupiah :D

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTFx7atnMV4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxf_GPN8o1c



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAHN9x-nUPs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtznzoOKheg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbOciZLfhXY



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGFKX7DVtVA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm7mSU0GqMI

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o6WcjZIkho


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxOu0H56BnQ



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHfCBQbD77U



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzk8YwfHf4Q



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCeh-zvl53A

[kuasimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HhqTQA7oAs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo3c5VYN4SU



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqiYHA6rW5U


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gRokzgjoVA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i02oA7Pze5M

[JohnBoSeh]

bro kuasimi, well done

[MoJoe313]

well lets see...hands up anyone in here who can go 15 years without working while still able to maintain current lifestyle. wanna see if its really that common.

I like the way you get your data. Survey SBF for wealth. LoL

Here's something to ponder over. DBS in recent years segregated their wealth management department.

Treasures for those with $350,000 investible funds. Treasures Private Client for those with $1.5m. Treasures Private Bank for those with >$5m.

https://www.dbs.com.sg/private-banking/dbs-wealth-management.page

Do you think their Private Bank is set up to service 10 people only? :p

[kuasimi]

Bro,

So in part, the heavy costs are a result of my decisions. But after numerous cost reviewing exercises, one can't deny it used to be easier for the middle class just years ago. I hope we are still called the Middle Class. It is not as though I cannot survive. But there is not much joy if one has to thrift all the time. It is hardly called Middle Class.

I can understand inflation. It is hyper inflation I can't deal with. QE and low interest rates take the cake. Bad policies increased the Gini coefficient.

1. Auctioning shopping malls land plots to developers directly, put certain essential goods at the mercy of capitalists. Owners try to meet their ROI by increasing rents. NTUC finest, Cold Storage etc pass down the cost to consumers. The game continues next year. Populate this format throughout the country, and this is why we are in this mess. There are fewer low cost wet market landlords to be found. Tell me, when was the last time you found Aeroplane chess, a game we used to play, for sale. It is not as though our kids want higher end toys. Low end toys just can't be found!

Same for food at food courts. The G realized this error by building 2 hawker centres. It recently decided to ramp up to 12. It showed the seriousness of it.

2. I am using the above as one of many policy errors I see happening. Don't want to mention others less I be interpreted as being politically partisan. I am not.

I wonder if we as a country are really richer when all we are trying to do is to purchase the same basket of goods.

It is a known phenomenon that our Gini is one of the highest in the world. There is a diminishing middle class. It is either super rich or poor. You may still be comfortable now. When this trend (or policy) continues, you just get pushed down the ladder one day. Unless you belong to the asset class, not the working man class. Good luck to us all.

Nothing wrong with being Pro WP or Anti PAP. You cannot sit on the fence because Singapore is a democracy. You need to choose sides. Do not be obsess with being neutral else you will need to spoil your vote.

The Media, PA Grassroots, Civil Service, NTUC, Unions, GLCs, Temasek Holdings, GIC etc were suppose to be neutral because of moral obligations and compliance but we all know past 50 years, these entities are only Pro PAP.

[MoJoe313]

Nothing wrong with being Pro WP or Anti PAP. You cannot sit on the fence because Singapore is a democracy. You need to choose sides. Do not be obsess with being neutral else you will need to spoil your vote.

The Media, PA Grassroots, Civil Service, NTUC, Unions, GLCs, Temasek Holdings, GIC etc were suppose to be neutral because of moral obligations and compliance but we all know past 50 years, these entities are only Pro PAP.

I used to spoil my votes last time. Draw smiley faces on both candidates. Haha!

[kuasimi]

I used to spoil my votes last time. Draw smiley faces on both candidates. Haha!

I cannot criticise you for that but you are not giving yourself a chance in shaping your own future, your children's future and your grandchildren's future then.

If you want to qualify to complain then the old cliche stands when voters complain about life and government. The question to you will be "Who did you vote for?" :D:rolleyes:

Too much Singaporean's savings stuck in big ticket items like house, health, education and transport. Expenditures on lifestyle, retirement, family nucleus are ultimately affected.

If Singapore is to be Singaporean and survive then everyone need to do something about it. Singapore is Singaporean ONLY IF YOU CAN KEEP IT. Democracy is not a free ride man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKbpLDdw4KU

Why SINGAPORE is NOT the greatest country in the world, anymore.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah29YK2NCU8

[Nato17]

Like you advocated, I do not work to enrich anyone but myself. This is why I can talk cock at this time of the day. LoL. The difficulty which is not explicit (or I didn't read far enough) is transiting to the asset class. A simple coffee shop costs $15m. Residential homes are cheaper at $1m a pop.



Coffeeshops will not be worth $15m in about a few years time. With the new alcohol regulations, it makes no more sense to plough in 15 million for pittance. A lot of coffeshops are going to go under period.

[Nato17]

Help me out bro. I am really trying hard not to be stubborn or to sound proud. Why is it almost everyone assumes it is a situation where "I am managing things poorly"?

If you must know, I have a cash reserve of 15 years. Cold hard cash in the bank. Not unliquidated assets, which is separate. I can go 15 years without income and still carry on this lifestyle. That's alot of zeros. I am not mis-managing. Nor boasting. Just alluding to the point that cost of living is rising very fast. Is it very hard to understand?

I concur with you that the cost of living is rising way too fast!

Let me do some simple maths right now for some people who have no sense of numbers.

Let's assume you require 4000 a month to live on during retirement, which isn't much really. I smoke 3-4 packs of cigarettes a day, so my cost is close to about $50 per day and assuming that cigarettes are not going to rise any further than this anymore (which probably is not going to happen). Now, at 4k per month, you basically have disposable income of $130 plus per day. Subtract $50, that leaves $70 per day. Minus away utilities at $20 per day plus $10 for internet/phones etc....that leaves you a grand total of $40 per day. Haven't considered food yet. So assuming you pay $30 per day for you and your wife for food during retirement...what do u have left? $10.

That is just simple maths!

Now, lets dig further ok? Let's assume how you got your $4k is basically through a rental apartment. How much is that worth really? Probably in the region of $1-1.5 Mil. So really, one would be considered middle class probably, yes or no?

We haven't even considered in inflation or the likes of sickness etc. Which is damn scary. I know of a lot of superscale retirees back in the early 2000s and middle 2000s who retired with 1 Mil and above and thought they were going to live a luxurious livestyle etc. And seriously now I see them they are living not well at all. The crux of the matter is, the rules have changed dramatically this last few years and things aren't getting any better!

[tungsten]

I would suggest that one of the first thing you consider to do is to cut down your smoking.

[parrotkid]

It is a fact that inflation here rose faster than income. In fact the inflation figures given by the govt can't be right since many basic need items are rising like 5-7% Per annum.

[IronCurtain]

well lets see...hands up anyone in here who can go 15 years without working while still able to maintain current lifestyle. wanna see if its really that common.


I like the way you get your data. Survey SBF for wealth. LoL

Here's something to ponder over. DBS in recent years segregated their wealth management department.

Treasures for those with $350,000 investible funds. Treasures Private Client for those with $1.5m. Treasures Private Bank for those with >$5m.

https://www.dbs.com.sg/private-banking/dbs-wealth-management.page

Do you think their Private Bank is set up to service 10 people only? :p


Let's recall this article showing that there are 100,000 millionaires in Singapore.

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/business/economy/story/wealthy-ranks-swell-singapore-report-20140619


Sure, there are 100k people to be serviced ;), but how many percent of the population is that?
Take citizen population as 3 million, then its 3 percent.
Take entire population as 5 million, thats 2 percent.

If your 15 years cash reserve amounts to a million dollars, you are easily in the top 3 percent of the population :eek:

If you call yourself middle class, the other 97 percent of the population is low class lah :D

[MoJoe313]

Coffeeshops will not be worth $15m in about a few years time. With the new alcohol regulations, it makes no more sense to plough in 15 million for pittance. A lot of coffeshops are going to go under period.

Aiyo. You have no idea bro. Never belittle a coffee shop. 5 hawkers each paying $6k a month rental gives you $30k a month. On a standard 3% ROI, thats $12m. Some are willing to go in at less than 3% because it is a limited asset and a safe way to park money. When rents increase, you can work out their corresponding value. The next time you go into a coffee shop, work out mathematically how rich that owner is.

I know a ex char kway teow seller. Started off with owning one coffee shop. Then the next. And the next. Today he owns an entire shopping mall in Australia. Valued at >A$100m. He is now in his 80s. Stays in a humble corner terrace in a outskirt location in sg near his coffee shop. His sons manage his empire.

How do I know? Lets just say I am intimately familiar with private banking. You guys have no idea how many super rich there are in Sg. The more I know, the more I feel like so small like a cockroach, waiting to be crushed by giants. And there are people here on paid salaries who think $8k a month expenses is good. Geez! Look around to see how others accumulate wealth.

[MoJoe313]

Let's recall this article showing that there are 100,000 millionaires in Singapore.

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/business/economy/story/wealthy-ranks-swell-singapore-report-20140619


Sure, there are 100k people to be serviced ;), but how many percent of the population is that?
Take citizen population as 3 million, then its 3 percent.
Take entire population as 5 million, thats 2 percent.

If your 15 years cash reserve amounts to a million dollars, you are easily in the top 3 percent of the population :eek:

If you call yourself middle class, the other 97 percent of the population is low class lah :D

A cogent argument. Looks like my thread is gaining traction. LoL.

Well, like I wrote earlier, I am intimately familiar with our wealth scene. These reports are common. You can choose to believe them. The sg I know is property mad. Many park their last hundred thousand into a property and hence fall off the $1m investible funds criteria. Bank balance low. Properties 4. Excluded in surveys (usually done with private banks). Er....you do know if I decide to plonk all mine into properties, I am not in the top 3% anymore and if another bro decides to liquidate his asset, he is in the top 3%, right?

Look around to see how many condos there are in sg.

[topcook1]

Guess now the discussion has deviate out from middle class crunch into High and rich classes liao....

[davidwee]

All the illegal china money raise property prices, even those tiny ass studio apartment super expensive in geylang. Don't need to think middle class, lower class how to afford HDB that cannot be passed down.
Since young my fear is that sg end up like hongkong. Good infrastructure but cost of living high and tiny boxes to live in.
I have some customers who hate the idea of HDB and buy parking space to live in boats, cost wise not alot more and far but at least you get to keep it.

I don't agree with the common mindset, marry and apply for HDB. I think it's smarter to rent and invest what you have. Sure rent increases every 1-2 years, but end of the day you will have more options whether you want to plonk down in sg or find a better place. I hear Greece is opening up :)

[kraam]

hmm...good to put down our egos here in this thread and learn stuff about money-making. camping.

[Orchinno]

A cogent argument. Looks like my thread is gaining traction. LoL.

Well, like I wrote earlier, I am intimately familiar with our wealth scene. These reports are common. You can choose to believe them. The sg I know is property mad. Many park their last hundred thousand into a property and hence fall off the $1m investible funds criteria. Bank balance low. Properties 4. Excluded in surveys (usually done with private banks). Er....you do know if I decide to plonk all mine into properties, I am not in the top 3% anymore and if another bro decides to liquidate his asset, he is in the top 3%, right?

Look around to see how many condos there are in sg.

Sorry, i am not going to bother with you anymore since you don't really need need advice from us poor people.

You keep looking over to the next hills and think "Darn that's higher than my hill". Go do a search under "We are the 99%". The person with a personal yacht is thinking that the guy with the Gulf jetstream is rich, while the guy with the jetstream thinks that guy with his own personal Caribbean island is rich. And all of them thinks Bill Gate is stupid for putting his money into Gates Foundation instead of passing it on to his kids.

All i know is that I am living happily now, enjoying my life and watching my children grow and I have factored in inflation into my lifestyle with depreciation of wealth every 10 years. When the time come to go, I will not hang on to this life, silently going into the night for another turn at the wheel that way I've come.

[sammyboyfor]

You keep looking over to the next hills and think "Darn that's higher than my hill". Go do a search under "We are the 99%". The person with a personal yacht is thinking that the guy with the Gulf jetstream is rich, while the guy with the jetstream thinks that guy with his own personal Caribbean island is rich. And all of them thinks Bill Gate is stupid for putting his money into Gates Foundation instead of passing it on to his kids.


We aren't all like that. The reason why I put in some effort to get off the treadmill is simply because I didn't want to be beholden to others anymore.

If you're salaried there is always a boss to report to and you have to put up with his whims, fancies, idiosyncrasies and insecurities. You might also have to put up with his wife, mistress and spoilt brat children.

You slog away at his beck and call but the efforts and skills you put into the businesses are not being used to build your own wealth. It's like renting property. You pay the landlord's mortgage but get none of the capital gains.

My aim was to achieve financial independence so that I could live my own life. It had nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses.

[Orchinno]

We aren't all like that. The reason why I put in some effort to get off the treadmill is simply because I didn't want to be beholden to others anymore.

If you're salaried there is always a boss to report to and you have to put up with his whims, fancies, idiosyncrasies and insecurities. You might also have to put up with his wife, mistress and spoilt brat children.

You slog away at his beck and call but the efforts and skills you put into the businesses are not being used to build your own wealth. It's like renting property. You pay the landlord's mortgage but get none of the capital gains.

My aim was to achieve financial independence so that I could live my own life. It had nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses.

Hi Founding Brother,

Cool to get a reply from you. Agree totally with you. Not sure about the TS though, base on the way he reveals information and talks.

Freedom is illusory and there's no absolute freedom. My background is in history, and all I can say is that the world as we know it and the economy and such is also illusory.

Most people like to plan on a straight line, thinking that life goes on the same way it does the previous. We may be lucky and is living on a plateau where everything is predictable. But history tells me that the world is full of inflection points where the path history takes veer off very suddenly. All the wealth may not help when those inflection points come.

So live life happily, and never bow down to unreasonable power. If my boss try to do his beck and call, I hiu lan him. The worse he can do is fire me. I am not his slave nor property. :D

[MagicFingers]

Aiyo. You have no idea bro. Never belittle a coffee shop. 5 hawkers each paying $6k a month rental gives you $30k a month. On a standard 3% ROI, thats $12m. Some are willing to go in at less than 3% because it is a limited asset and a safe way to park money. When rents increase, you can work out their corresponding value. The next time you go into a coffee shop, work out mathematically how rich that owner is.

I know a ex char kway teow seller. Started off with owning one coffee shop. Then the next. And the next. Today he owns an entire shopping mall in Australia. Valued at >A$100m. He is now in his 80s. Stays in a humble corner terrace in a outskirt location in sg near his coffee shop. His sons manage his empire.

How do I know? Lets just say I am intimately familiar with private banking. You guys have no idea how many super rich there are in Sg. The more I know, the more I feel like so small like a cockroach, waiting to be crushed by giants. And there are people here on paid salaries who think $8k a month expenses is good. Geez! Look around to see how others accumulate wealth.

At first, this thread was about Middle Class Singaporeans, or at least, the title said so.

You were the TS, you said you and your wife earned average incomes. So, fine, I read all your gripes, and thought you meant well. But afterwards, other information about you came about. Combined income >$10K, 15 years of liquid cash in the bank / 15 years you can sustain your lifestyle without change.

I understand your point about inflation. $10K income now you can spend at your current level, though chilli crab meals are rarer than previously on a $10K income, and you're worried about how much your 15 years of liquid cash in the bank will be worth 15 years from now. Maybe 10 years? Maybe 8? I don't know. Maybe you're worried about how you'd afford your next car. You seem to be thrifty in some ways, and that is good.

But what I do know, is that you're probably not middle income, and probably not the average Singaporean.

Comparing yourself to someone richer and aspiring to have his level of assets is good, I look at people with nice cars and ask myself how I can achieve that.

However, do not try to pass yourself off as merely middle income and an average Singaporean / Singaporean family. You are too heavily influenced in your interactions with the HNWI or UHNWIs.. You could be at the top 3%, but you are comparing with the top 0.3%.

You do seem out of touch with the average Singaporean, at least IMHO.

[MoJoe313]

You could be at the top 3%

This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Top 3% staying in a flat and almost no car. LMAO. Many bros accuse me of mis-managing costs so I revealed my savings to show that I am not. So they look for another axe to grind - accuse me of being top 3%. Hahaha. Ok, I am going to plonk my money into a property tomorrow. No savings. Kindly welcome me back to "middle class". Now you can formally re-accuse me of mis-managing. Accuse me of spending too much so I no savings. Not cost of living problem.

This is what you want, right? You did right, I screwed up, not society fault :eek:

[sammyboyfor]

Freedom is illusory and there's no absolute freedom. My background is in history, and all I can say is that the world as we know it and the economy and such is also illusory.

So live life happily, and never bow down to unreasonable power. If my boss try to do his beck and call, I hiu lan him. The worse he can do is fire me. I am not his slave nor property. :D

The freedom I refer to is financial freedom.

If you're boss fires you and it makes no difference to your life, then you have achieved financial freedom.

If your boss fires you and you can't pay the bills as a result, then you're beholden to your boss whether you like it or not.

[MoJoe313]

Sorry, i am not going to bother with you anymore since you don't really need need advice from us poor people.


Yes, please ignore me. I am a decrepit old man with nothing better to do ranting under the guise of anonymity. Thanks for sharing your cost and advices. I will bear your counsel in mind. See, I always like to learn. From people I agree or disagree with.

Wait, I am guaranteed anonymity here, right?! :eek:

[MoJoe313]

All the illegal china money raise property prices, even those tiny ass studio apartment super expensive in geylang.

A good point. A bro mentioned QE. I think its low interest rates. Yours is probably the biggest reason. Hot money from China. The wealthy in China are spreading their wings. Good luck to us all.

[MagicFingers]

This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Top 3% staying in a flat and almost no car. LMAO. Many bros accuse me of mis-managing costs so I revealed my savings to show that I am not. So they look for another axe to grind - accuse me of being top 3%. Hahaha. Ok, I am going to plonk my money into a property tomorrow. No savings. Kindly welcome me back to "middle class". Now you can formally re-accuse me of mis-managing. Accuse me of spending too much so I no savings. Not cost of living problem.

This is what you want, right? You did right, I screwed up, not society fault :eek:

You can't take it when people disagree with you. I didn't say you are in the top 3%, i said you could be in the top 3% but you are comparing yourself with people in the top 0.3%. It's always a comparison thing. I could have said you could be in the top 10% and are comparing yourself with the top 1% and my meaning would be exactly the same.

If you'd like to twist my words, nothing I'd say will be right, least not to you. If you understood me wrongly, just ask.

Besides, what's with the almost no car? You either have a car or don't have one, and right now, you do have one, although if I remember correctly, it is about 9 years old, so you might have to either renew COE or get a new car.

I didn't accuse you of mismanaging your resources, if anything, I think you're doing well. But all the same, you are not exactly middle of the middle class. Maybe if you reveal more, we'll find out you have other properties (aside from one that you are residing in right now) that are being rented out too, yes? No? Or maybe other assets like gold or stocks.

[MoJoe313]

Maybe if you reveal more, we'll find out you have other properties (aside from one that you are residing in right now) that are being rented out too, yes? No? Or maybe other assets like gold or stocks.

Da fark lah! Cb. You guys damn funny. Make me laugh till I fall down. Na bay. Now you all want to check whether I got gold bars under my bed?? Oi, can serious a bit or not? We talking whether cost of living here high. Just answer the question lah.

[sadfa]

Cost of living is indeed high bt its becoming farcical fr a millionaire with liquid cash, which likely you have, moaning bt it.

This is like those caricatures on tv of millionaires scrooging when they have a choice not to. We don't

And you keep saying There're filthy rich in spore.
No doubt. Bt do u know There are t very poor too, esp in comparison to you?

[abugga]

It does seem that the threadstarter here is not seeking an answer nor advice about "cost of living" ..

It has been painfully apparent that you are merely seeking to have the general public to approve/agree and start bashing all the externalities of control in your life. By shifting blame to all external locus of control, by lamenting the invisible forces of economics and society beat you down, and you are willingly accepting it as it is without the courage to stand up and say I have respect for myself as a man, a husband and a father, a son to not only endure this hardship, but to take a change.

Do not take this personal as I have no feelings toward you, no pity no anger, nothing.

You are living a second hand life by letting public opinion, hearsay and values affect the way you perceive reality. You have no values to call your own and you have an utmost zero level of self respect towards yourself as a MAN to take control of yourself, your emotions your will.

Do not get me wrong, life is a lifelong battle and suffering and defeat is a detail of a battlefield, so what? You will just have to suffer and hustle harder to get what you want.

What is the point of opening a discussion (if you can even call this shameful act a discussion) if all you do is to try is to accept what concurs with you, and reject that which may be the truth. (there is no right or wrong I will give it to you)

If you cannot take charge, take control of your own fate and destiny, who do you want to entrust that responsibility and integrity to? Society? The government? Your mother? Your wife your kids?

You expect life to be charitable, to hold you in her arms and say MoJoe you are well taken care of, you do not need to struggle or perhaps even suffer to attain whatever you have wished to set out for.

You are a man and you dont deserve less. You must not expect anyone to do you good neither will you do anyone good. If you can even comprehend this sentence, you are on your way to self respect.

You keep this up you will have lived life as a fool and will definately come to a fool's end one day.

[EtHiCaLhAcKeR]

One alternative is to move out of Singapore.

There are countries readily available to accept you if you are able to lower your expectations and seek what you desire from a different perspective.

The issue with Singaporeans is they are unable to venture out of their comfort zone.

[MoJoe313]

Sadfa, abugga, [Insert Name],
I neither take offence nor expect people to agree. This is a forum. Anyone with an access to Internet can comment freely. I can understand people will be angry when they see someone better off complaining. Teach him what life is all about. Insult and trash him later.

Who is MoJoe? I am just a faceless person driving a car you see on the road, living in one of our high rise pigeon holes.

You could have ignored me if I wrote rubbish. But you bothered to reply. And wrote a lengthy one too. Because some things I wrote resonated quietly inside you. You look around your country, you see swathes upon swathes of condos everywhere. Each worth millions. How can there be so many rich people out there? What will my future be?

Like I said, I am just a decrepit old man who spoke the hidden recess in your mind. Ignore me. We lim a cuppa of kopi when we meet. :)

[leakypipes]

Sadfa, abugga, [Insert Name],
I neither take offence nor expect people to agree. This is a forum. Anyone with an access to Internet can comment freely. I can understand people will be angry when they see someone better off complaining. Teach him what life is all about. Insult and trash him later.

Who is MoJoe? I am just a faceless person driving a car you see on the road, living in one of our high rise pigeon holes.

You could have ignored me if I wrote rubbish. But you bothered to reply. And wrote a lengthy one too. Because some things I wrote resonated quietly inside you. You look around your country, you see swathes upon swathes of condos everywhere. Each worth millions. How can there be so many rich people out there? What will my future be?

Like I said, I am just a decrepit old man who spoke the hidden recess in your mind. Ignore me. We lim a cuppa of kopi when we meet. :)

Hmm yiu sound like someone I know with the name Joe. I used to go KTV w the bugger. He also running own company and got same number of kids as you. Same age range also.

[MoJoe313]

Hmm yiu sound like someone I know with the name Joe. I used to go KTV w the bugger. He also running own company and got same number of kids as you. Same age range also.

leakypipes brother,
I corresponded with you a few times in other threads. That's about it. I am not that bugger you mentioned. I don't do KTV. Check out my past posts. I am really a decent sincere chap who loves his wife and kids, trying to find his way in this messy world. We will get along well if we ever meet.:)

[sammyboyfor]

leakypipes brother,
I corresponded with you a few times in other threads. That's about it. I am not that bugger you mentioned. I don't do KTV. Check out my past posts. I am really a decent sincere chap who loves his wife and kids, trying to find his way in this messy world. We will get along well if we ever meet.:)

What are you doing here then?

[abugga]

Sadfa, abugga, [Insert Name],
I neither take offence nor expect people to agree. This is a forum. Anyone with an access to Internet can comment freely. I can understand people will be angry when they see someone better off complaining. Teach him what life is all about. Insult and trash him later.

Who is MoJoe? I am just a faceless person driving a car you see on the road, living in one of our high rise pigeon holes.

You could have ignored me if I wrote rubbish. But you bothered to reply. And wrote a lengthy one too. Because some things I wrote resonated quietly inside you. You look around your country, you see swathes upon swathes of condos everywhere. Each worth millions. How can there be so many rich people out there? What will my future be?

Like I said, I am just a decrepit old man who spoke the hidden recess in your mind. Ignore me. We lim a cuppa of kopi when we meet. :)

it is not that what you have said that has resonated in me, this you are wrong about me, I little or no affection for these self attached perceptions of wealth and material. money merely keeps the score and buys me tools to use.

I am merely telling you to be a man, to take charge of your own life instead of asking everyone why is this so why is that so. You want more money, find a way to earn more money, coming in here and find an outlet that much is a futile attempt. You want a condo? Find a way to earn the money to buy one. you want a raise? Prove it to your boss and ask for it, demand it If you truly have the worth.

Once again, i am replying not because I care for you, but because I have my own beliefs of what a man should do and be, and that I only see men degrading into pussies and scum. I stand by my own values. This correspondence is merely reminding myself of my own ideals.

[dewe]

it is not that what you have said that has resonated in me, this you are wrong about me, I little or no affection for these self attached perceptions of wealth and material. money merely keeps the score and buys me tools to use.

I am merely telling you to be a man, to take charge of your own life instead of asking everyone why is this so why is that so. You want more money, find a way to earn more money, coming in here and find an outlet that much is a futile attempt. You want a condo? Find a way to earn the money to buy one. you want a raise? Prove it to your boss and ask for it, demand it If you truly have the worth.

Once again, i am replying not because I care for you, but because I have my own beliefs of what a man should do and be. And I stand by My own beliefs. take it as a selfish man that I am , reminding myself of my own ideals.

For the record, i'm on this side of the camp. A perspective of life comes from one's within. We can be influenced by what is around us but that is also a matter of the power within ourselves. As a wise man once said "Life is simple but we insist on making it complicated".

[MoJoe313]

What are you doing here then?

Hey, I must act busy too right?! :p

[comm]

all i see at the first post is a complain on rising cost of living and stagnant wages, which is a very real problem faced by the majority of Singaporeans who are salary workers