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chinaboy
10-03-2005, 08:36 AM
Hi bros ... have anyone try out the new budget airline JetStar ??

any feedbacks ???

thanks in advance

sassina2
10-03-2005, 01:12 PM
Its partly owned by Qantas, and using new planes so it must be a serious player.

With budget airlines, what kind of expectations would anyone have so long as it gets you there safely and back and the prices are affordable (if you book early enough) and you comply with their weight limitations and other quirks?

If your priority is multiple schedule, ability to change timings, bookings and lots of in-cabin service and other frills, then budget airline is not for you.

(e,g, if company is paying and money is no object)


p.s. I have a friend who flew their inaugural to Pattaya which was delayed a few hours but he got there and back safely.

I recently flew Lufthansa to Jakarta (regular airline) and was delayed 2 and half hours on the outward leg so delays are not the exclusive problems that budget airlines face!

betweenus21
10-03-2005, 07:44 PM
read from the papers whilst on SQ flight back from guangzhou last fri that a few days ago, passengers on a Jetstar asia from HK were stranded more than 12 hrs when the pilot didnt show up for his flight. And currently with only 2 planes flying n 2 more yet to be delivered ; its a risky option to travel on biz or "must go" travel as if a plane is grounded; there's no spare plane and planes do have minor problems whether its new or not.

hipi911
11-03-2005, 09:22 AM
Took Jetstar last week, fly to HK. I would say no too bad, just bring your passport and get your boarding pass in the airport. Seat were pretty small, 3 seat on the left and 3 on the right. Stewardess so so looking only. No drinks or foods serve, but can BUY from them, a can of Coke cost S$2 and food abt S$8-S$10. You can actually bring your own drinks and food if you want.

They also sell duty free goods on board. Overall i would say VERY GOOD (except when back from Hk, i walk more than 15 min to reach the boarding gate, think HK give them the last gate, haiiii)

Freestyler69
11-03-2005, 12:11 PM
read from the papers whilst on SQ flight back from guangzhou last fri that a few days ago, passengers on a Jetstar asia from HK were stranded more than 12 hrs when the pilot didnt show up for his flight. And currently with only 2 planes flying n 2 more yet to be delivered ; its a risky option to travel on biz or "must go" travel as if a plane is grounded; there's no spare plane and planes do have minor problems whether its new or not.

that pilot must be a cheongster stranded somewhere in China after bonking overnight..hehehe

Freestyler69
11-03-2005, 12:13 PM
Its partly owned by Qantas, and using new planes so it must be a serious player.

With budget airlines, what kind of expectations would anyone have so long as it gets you there safely and back and the prices are affordable (if you book early enough) and you comply with their weight limitations and other quirks?

If your priority is multiple schedule, ability to change timings, bookings and lots of in-cabin service and other frills, then budget airline is not for you.

(e,g, if company is paying and money is no object)


p.s. I have a friend who flew their inaugural to Pattaya which was delayed a few hours but he got there and back safely.

I recently flew Lufthansa to Jakarta (regular airline) and was delayed 2 and half hours on the outward leg so delays are not the exclusive problems that budget airlines face!

i tried Tigerairways, plane is new too and same type like Jetstar, they use Russian Pilot, quite a comfortable ride and on time too.

sassina2
11-03-2005, 12:27 PM
i tried Tigerairways, plane is new too and same type like Jetstar, they use Russian Pilot, quite a comfortable ride and on time too.

Never flown Jetstar but did Air Asia and Tiger many times and frankly, I have no complains when I fly LCCs cos I have low expectations. But, Tiger is great with the New Planes and solid SIA parents.

Air Asia - I like their spunkiness and "try hard" even if you;re nobody attitude to the business and they deserve whatever success they have had so far.

And they have extensive coverage in Malaysia, Thailand and now Indonesia althought getting to Indonesia has been a problem with our government screwing them.

Yes the planes are old, but, I have flown OLDER in Indonesia and Philippines on scheduled carriers so, I still salute their guts and business gungho.

Wish there are more of them so we benefit more!

l3atu
11-03-2005, 12:33 PM
read from the papers whilst on SQ flight back from guangzhou last fri that a few days ago, passengers on a Jetstar asia from HK were stranded more than 12 hrs when the pilot didnt show up for his flight. And currently with only 2 planes flying n 2 more yet to be delivered ; its a risky option to travel on biz or "must go" travel as if a plane is grounded; there's no spare plane and planes do have minor problems whether its new or not.

Yup. I saw this piece of news too. But I'll still use Jetstar Asia coz its really cheap. ;)

ciakpachineng
11-03-2005, 02:12 PM
Never flown Jetstar but did Air Asia and Tiger many times and frankly, I have no complains when I fly LCCs cos I have low expectations. But, Tiger is great with the New Planes and solid SIA parents.

Air Asia - I like their spunkiness and "try hard" even if you;re nobody attitude to the business and they deserve whatever success they have had so far.

And they have extensive coverage in Malaysia, Thailand and now Indonesia althought getting to Indonesia has been a problem with our government screwing them.

Yes the planes are old, but, I have flown OLDER in Indonesia and Philippines on scheduled carriers so, I still salute their guts and business gungho.

Wish there are more of them so we benefit more!

ya...LCC tiger and airasia are OK for very short hauls 2-3hrs like BKK, HDY,Chiangmai
for medium hauls 4hrs like HKG,TPE by Jetstar....I doubt I can tahan..no reasonable food (Airasia only has sandwiches and cup noodles...blah) to sate my tummy and no reasonably attractive chicks to sate my eyes.... :D

Sinoview
11-03-2005, 02:33 PM
ya...LCC tiger and airasia are OK for very short hauls 2-3hrs like BKK, HDY,Chiangmai
for medium hauls 4hrs like HKG,TPE by Jetstar....I doubt I can tahan..no reasonable food (Airasia only has sandwiches and cup noodles...blah) to sate my tummy and no reasonably attractive chicks to sate my eyes.... :D

You got it wrong. There're food and drinks...except that you have pay for it. Personally, i think paying S$8 for a meal and S$2 for a coke on a plane is reasonable ok. But you can bring yr own if you choose to....

With new planes, leather seats, basis service, ok flight schedules, good price... I think Jetstarasia is good enough for an average traveller. Business or otherwise.

betweenus21
11-03-2005, 07:50 PM
actually if one look at the fares offered by Tiger n Jetstar asia and compare to Valuair - in the final figures believed valuair is better as for just merely a few dollars more - u get food, assigned seating and higher check-in baggage weight (20kg as oppose to 15kg by the others). The main difference too is valuair is less of a squeeze - just imagine all these 3 LCCs fly the very same plane - the Airbus 320 - but valuair has only 156 seats, whilst the tiger n jetstar has 180 seats. Likewise for fare to say HK - jetstar may offer like $68 one-way whereas valuair costs abt $220 - but tiger n jetstar fare does not include their so-called admin fee and insurance - and of course airport taxes which all airlines dont include. So if we add it up jetsrat fare with its admin/fuel surcharge n insurance
charges will come up to abt $110 one-way - contrast this with valuair.
So basically as a frequent flyer to HK/China - i take valuair - when there's no heavy discount promo by SIA or Cathay. But all these LCCs dont have very chio girls.

n1963g
12-03-2005, 12:35 AM
You got it wrong. There're food and drinks...except that you have pay for it. Personally, i think paying S$8 for a meal and S$2 for a coke on a plane is reasonable ok. But you can bring yr own if you choose to....

With new planes, leather seats, basis service, ok flight schedules, good price... I think Jetstarasia is good enough for an average traveller. Business or otherwise.

yup.. only free thing they thrown in is TODAY newpaper. if u lucky enuff to grab one of them.

came in thru stormy weather but landing by ang moh pilot is confirm 10/10, nice touchdown, not skidding, no wham, just touch down and glide in sweet sweet.

Sinoview
12-03-2005, 09:23 AM
actually if one look at the fares offered by Tiger n Jetstar asia and compare to Valuair - in the final figures believed valuair is better as for just merely a few dollars more - u get food, assigned seating and higher check-in baggage weight (20kg as oppose to 15kg by the others). The main difference too is valuair is less of a squeeze - just imagine all these 3 LCCs fly the very same plane - the Airbus 320 - but valuair has only 156 seats, whilst the tiger n jetstar has 180 seats. Likewise for fare to say HK - jetstar may offer like $68 one-way whereas valuair costs abt $220 - but tiger n jetstar fare does not include their so-called admin fee and insurance - and of course airport taxes which all airlines dont include. So if we add it up jetsrat fare with its admin/fuel surcharge n insurance
charges will come up to abt $110 one-way - contrast this with valuair.
So basically as a frequent flyer to HK/China - i take valuair - when there's no heavy discount promo by SIA or Cathay. But all these LCCs dont have very chio girls.

What you mentioned about the seatings was perfectly corrrect. The leg space of Valueair is even better than any other Commercial Airlines most using bigger planes. In this area Value air is really one above them all.

But, price wise. At this moment Valueair is not good all. Even for their saver package listed below :

Saver 1 Month
SGD 319
Saver 14 Days
SGD 299
Saver 7 Days
SGD 259
* the above price exclude tax and other fuel charges.

These are way higher as compared Jetstarasia at S$68 one way exclude tax.

Please enlighten us on how you compute that Valueair is of only slightly higher in fare as compare Jetstarasia.

I'm also a frequent traveller to China/HK. I like to enjoy good value for money fare.

Right now, i've booked for my partner and myself on a UA package fm HK-Sin-HK at a offer ticket of HK$965(S$203) inclusive all tax n other charges. That i think it's quite a good price.

sgcandyman
12-03-2005, 10:43 AM
so far my exp w budget airlines r so so onli, they r budget but take note that its the px tat is budget but service and all other aspects, the airlines do hv a std industry practice to follow. Took a flt from sg to bkk, quite comfy w d seats and service w a smile..

betweenus21
12-03-2005, 02:59 PM
What you mentioned about the seatings was perfectly corrrect. The leg space of Valueair is even better than any other Commercial Airlines most using bigger planes. In this area Value air is really one above them all.

But, price wise. At this moment Valueair is not good all. Even for their saver package listed below :

Saver 1 Month
SGD 319
Saver 14 Days
SGD 299
Saver 7 Days
SGD 259
* the above price exclude tax and other fuel charges.

These are way higher as compared Jetstarasia at S$68 one way exclude tax.

Please enlighten us on how you compute that Valueair is of only slightly higher in fare as compare Jetstarasia.

I'm also a frequent traveller to China/HK. I like to enjoy good value for money fare.

Right now, i've booked for my partner and myself on a UA package fm HK-Sin-HK at a offer ticket of HK$965(S$203) inclusive all tax n other charges. That i think it's quite a good price.


hi Sinoview

Its better if u register with valuair online to receive their special offers - which u get first n in some cases its not even advertised in the papers - and at times they have their promos to hk which is reali cheap - like back in late jan - their fare for roundtrip to hk was only $165! (journey to be completed by end feb). So have to watch out for their specials.
And heard from the airline grapevine is that jetstar asia is scaling down due to lacklustre performance - as they just change their young go-getter CEO to a old-jetstar aussie guy who is not known for his aggressiveness but just sitting out his career and that one plane has already been returned to jetstar australia; and on service cuts they already stop flying to pattaya i think.

betweenus21
12-03-2005, 03:08 PM
What you mentioned about the seatings was perfectly corrrect. The leg space of Valueair is even better than any other Commercial Airlines most using bigger planes. In this area Value air is really one above them all.

But, price wise. At this moment Valueair is not good all. Even for their saver package listed below :

Saver 1 Month
SGD 319
Saver 14 Days
SGD 299
Saver 7 Days
SGD 259
* the above price exclude tax and other fuel charges.

These are way higher as compared Jetstarasia at S$68 one way exclude tax.

Please enlighten us on how you compute that Valueair is of only slightly higher in fare as compare Jetstarasia.

I'm also a frequent traveller to China/HK. I like to enjoy good value for money fare.

Right now, i've booked for my partner and myself on a UA package fm HK-Sin-HK at a offer ticket of HK$965(S$203) inclusive all tax n other charges. That i think it's quite a good price.




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Example :



The Valuair Post Christmas Deal
Specially for our Newsletter Subscribers!

No Need to travel in Pairs! No Flight Restrictions! Incredibly Value Fares!

And as subscribers to our newsletter, you are the first to know of this deal.


To enjoy these special fares:


Destination One Way Return Airfare
Bangkok S$80 S$99
Hong Kong S$110 S$130
Jakarta S$70 S$99
Perth NA S$310



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Terms & Conditions

No refund, extension or transfer of ticket
Rebooking or change of date not permitted
Min 2 nights stay required for Jakarta, Bangkok & Hong Kong
Min 3 nights stay required for Perth
Max stay of 7 days
Tickets must be issued 24 hours after booking
Tickets will be issued immediately for internet bookings
No show no refund


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Psssst...

You were not among the first to receive this email? Miss out no more! Make sure you are signed up to our newsletter! Just submit your email address here!

sassina2
12-03-2005, 08:26 PM
IF its true that Jetstar is really scaling back, its sad news for those of us who are happy to benefit from the low fares of LCCs and the response of low promos of regular scheduled airlines.

I expect it will happen sooner or later when losses force the owners to cut back. Just that it's too soon to happen.

Too bad ; great bargains never last forever and I love bargains!

Sinoview
13-03-2005, 01:17 AM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Example :
The Valuair Post Christmas Deal
Specially for our Newsletter Subscribers!
No Need to travel in Pairs! No Flight Restrictions! Incredibly Value Fares!
And as subscribers to our newsletter, you are the first to know of this deal.

To enjoy these special fares:
Destination One Way Return Airfare
Bangkok S$80 S$99
Hong Kong S$110 S$130
Jakarta S$70 S$99
Perth NA S$310

------------------------------------------------------------------
Terms & Conditions
No refund, extension or transfer of ticket
Rebooking or change of date not permitted
Min 2 nights stay required for Jakarta, Bangkok & Hong Kong
Min 3 nights stay required for Perth
Max stay of 7 days
Tickets must be issued 24 hours after booking
Tickets will be issued immediately for internet bookings
No show no refund
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psssst...
You were not among the first to receive this email? Miss out no more! Make sure you are signed up to our newsletter! Just submit your email address here!

Ha..ha.. that's X'mas deal !!! Long past ....

Valueair price to HK is more attractive now.

Sorry to say that your info is out dated.

ciakpachineng
13-03-2005, 02:15 PM
You got it wrong. There're food and drinks...except that you have pay for it. Personally, i think paying S$8 for a meal and S$2 for a coke on a plane is reasonable ok. But you can bring yr own if you choose to....


ya...I did not say there are no food and drinks. Just that the quality of the food is bad....only bland junk food like sandwiches, cup noodles.
Yes, almost all LCCs operate on the pay-to-eat model... :cool:

ciakpachineng
13-03-2005, 02:23 PM
actually if one look at the fares offered by Tiger n Jetstar asia and compare to Valuair - in the final figures believed valuair is better as for just merely a few dollars more - u get food, assigned seating and higher check-in baggage weight (20kg as oppose to 15kg by the others). The main difference too is valuair is less of a squeeze - just imagine all these 3 LCCs fly the very same plane - the Airbus 320 - but valuair has only 156 seats, whilst the tiger n jetstar has 180 seats. Likewise for fare to say HK - jetstar may offer like $68 one-way whereas valuair costs abt $220 - but tiger n jetstar fare does not include their so-called admin fee and insurance - and of course airport taxes which all airlines dont include. So if we add it up jetsrat fare with its admin/fuel surcharge n insurance
charges will come up to abt $110 one-way - contrast this with valuair.
So basically as a frequent flyer to HK/China - i take valuair - when there's no heavy discount promo by SIA or Cathay. But all these LCCs dont have very chio girls.
from the start, Valuair kingpin, Ah Beng (aka CB Lim) has said that they want to position themselves between LCC and full service airlines...it is trying to capture budget biz travellers market
Agewise, Valuair gals are probably most matured with lots of aunties and ah sohs

TUBORG
06-04-2005, 06:22 PM
My round trip to BKK no problem.
Everything very professionally carried out by crew.

chinaboy
07-04-2005, 10:29 AM
my last trip to BKK was on JETSTAR ....

gave it a try to see how's this budget airline go ...

service are good ... the crews are eager to help and they're very friendly ...

plane is very clean .... leather seat .. ..
but the setback is the leg space ... it's too cramped ..
i cannot imagine how a tall, big size person gonna fit in comfortably ..

other than this, everything is fine ..

my luggage was overweight by about 1 kg but the checkin crew let me in without any surcharge ... unlike TIGERAIRWAYS ... want to charge me for 1 kg overweight ...KNN ...

i will taking Valuair next wk to BKK ...
let's see how it goes ...

so far, IMO ..... JETSTAR is the best ...

cheers

ruhua
07-04-2005, 02:11 PM
plane is very clean .... leather seat .. ..
but the setback is the leg space ... it's too cramped ..
i cannot imagine how a tall, big size person gonna fit in comfortably ..

i will taking Valuair next wk to BKK ...
let's see how it goes ...

so far, IMO ..... JETSTAR is the best ...

cheers

Besides the exit seats. Are the Jetstar seats leg space more cramp then Tiger Airways? Air Asia's leg space and seat wideness is better than Tiger Airways.

As for Valuair I feel it's the same as Tiger Airways. Besides the price of course.

TUBORG
08-04-2005, 09:07 AM
Leg Clamp symdrome of the "cattle class" seat is expected of any budget as I experienced mine which I well anticipated for a fairly big man like myself.

Well this is budget airline, everything cost including water for drinking. Only newspaper is free of charge (Streets).


Note : Remember do not bring in any metallic item, ie nail clipper, jackknife on your hand carry luggage. Stow them away in the check-in luggage. Otherwise, confisticated and you will have hard time to recover them in your next port of call.

betweenus21
08-04-2005, 10:52 AM
Besides the exit seats. Are the Jetstar seats leg space more cramp then Tiger Airways? Air Asia's leg space and seat wideness is better than Tiger Airways.

As for Valuair I feel it's the same as Tiger Airways. Besides the price of course.


Valuair's seat pitch (ie the distance between the seats or "leg room) is definitely more than tiger air n air asia. This can be checked from their website or if one compares the total seating of valuair n tiger aircraft - as both operate exactly the same type of plane (the A320) valuair total seating is 156 compared to 180 for tiger air. Besides valuair also offers some food n drinks unlike tiger air which offers nothing unless u pay for it.

ruhua
08-04-2005, 02:02 PM
Valuair's seat pitch (ie the distance between the seats or "leg room) is definitely more than tiger air n air asia. This can be checked from their website or if one compares the total seating of valuair n tiger aircraft - as both operate exactly the same type of plane (the A320) valuair total seating is 156 compared to 180 for tiger air. Besides valuair also offers some food n drinks unlike tiger air which offers nothing unless u pay for it.

Appreciate your clarification. Not a Valuair regular so memory fails. Only can remember the 'chai tao kuay' serving and the allowed 20KG check in luggage. :D

sutramaster
24-04-2005, 01:14 AM
Went to Bkk by Jetstar last mth. Everything ok and smooth. There were 2 Chinese stewardesses. Very chio. Bros going to BKK by Jetstar can keep a lookout and see if they do FL... :D

williamangkh
25-04-2005, 12:12 PM
Some info about LCCs.

Never before I take any LCCs before till my last trip, last week to BKK.

The leg to BKK from SIN is with JetStar Asia. Was given a seat at the aisle by the counter staff during check-in. All leather seats and the seat distance is very limited. ok for me as I am not tall but the farang sitting on other side was struggling as he is quite tall. Food being offered has greater variety and not too expensive. As for the Stewardess, ok lah!

On the way back, try AirAsia but was confused during check-in as there are counter stating ThaiAirAsia. Later realise it it the same. Was trying the get an early flight back but was informed the earlier flight is cancelled. I was abit perplexed as if i will to book the earlier flight, does it mean i will take the later flight? Hmm??? quite scary for me as I hate waiting in the airport.
As for the plane, it is old and small and the variety of food offer is so much less compare to the latter carrier. Also free seating arrangement.

Overall, I think Jetstar Asia has a better plane and i think with seat allocation it is so much better than AirAsia's free seating.

Cheers!

chinaboy
25-04-2005, 12:40 PM
back from BKK last wk taking Valuair ...

IMO .... this is the best LCC budget airline in town ...

leg space are roomy ... as i am mid size so it's spacious for me ..
food are very good on the way to BKK .... finish every bit of it ..
but the flight back ... the food was only so so ...

on my way back, my check in luggage was about 12 kg but my hand luggage was 10 kg ...
and the nice counter crew was so kind enough to allowed me to check in both luggages .... since i did not exceed the 22kg alloted to each passenger ...
i am very pleased with such flexibility from them ...

valuair stewardess are friendly, helpful and good looking too ...
they even entertain us with their own "compose" song to the tune of 7 lonely days ...

overall ... i would grade Valuair as the best LCC in town ....
second to Jetstar and third Tigerairway ...

have never tried Airasia but have heard a lot of bad experinces about them ...

will avoid them at all cost ...


cheers
chinaboy

betweenus21
25-04-2005, 01:00 PM
Jetstar is scaling down due to our government giving them a hard time....The govt only wants local LCC's like Tiger and Valueair to grow and survive.... They even gave AirAsia a really bad treatment e.g. not letting them fly to Indonesia.....not letting them operate a bus service to Senai , so that Singaporeans cannot take the ....Bus to Senai...follwed by AirAsia flight to Indonesia...route.


Yes believed our govt is only giving Air Asia a hard time as it is the only foreign LCC and also to "ptotect" our own LCCs. Of course Tiger air is given "priority" unofficailly as it is majority owned by SIA (Temasek aka govt-owned) and to some degree Jetstar Asia - which is also a jv by SIN govt Temasek holdings and Jetstar of Australia.
But on another note to be fair, without Air Asia, there will probably be no local LCCs like tiger air etc or will not materialise so soon. And on another note by next year onwards - air asia will have their brand new Airbus A320 (the same as tiger, valuair n jetstar asia) and will be on par if not better as their planes will be even newer - only thing is if they do change to assign seats instead of free seating. And in a few mths air asia will fly to 6 cities in china - and guangzhou is one of them - so lets hope our LCCs will match their prices n even SIA will lower theirs.

Ah Seah
25-04-2005, 01:36 PM
The only LCC I have tried is Virgin Blue in Australia a few years back. Not a bad experience within Aust domestic flying experience. Good concept for Aust when domestic flying used to be very expensive.

For South East Asia, Hong Kong and Taiwan, I am not sure whether it has room to play. First this is not one regulator. Look recently, Indonesia stop the right for some of the LCC landing the key cities like Jakarta, Medan, Surabaya and Bali otherwise its national carriers will be severly affected. Unless you have a really open sky policy within Asean, and smaller airport adjuctent to the major cities, LCC would be questionable in the region. LCC could be a market for China and India.

Singapore is obviously in a better position with four different carriers to address different market segements.

RockyIV
02-05-2005, 02:25 PM
ya, tried Jetstar twice.
1) Leather seat, comfy;
2) quick check in;
3) ample leg room, they are using the same plane as TigerAir but Tiger tried to squeeze in more pessengers ended up with very very cramped leg room; jetstars is abt the same as other full-service airline;
4) poor phone service, but in flight service is excellent.
5) jetstars provide FREE 'TODAY' paper, which is a good move. Not sure why TigerAir didn't think of this, cos' it's free doesn't increase their cost at all.

boysaigon
02-05-2005, 03:58 PM
Agree with most bros here. Request for the emergency seats was a smart move. The leg room is a lot more and near to the exit too. (not the emergency one la) actually they have more emergency seats; 2 rows on both sides.

good value for money.

Golf mag is provided for free too.

Hope they can cover more places. Have not tried Tiger but got a seat to VN later this month for 9.90..so cant complain even the seat is a bit too close to one another...

Boy

longblack
03-05-2005, 02:43 AM
Looks like its worthwhile to fly Jetstar eh.

I was actually getting some flight details to Bkk and realise that
Jetstar is so much cheaper than Tiger. (did not check Valuair)

Jetstar rtn fare is $111.00 inclusive of all charges.
Tiger is $160+ inclusive of all charges.
Wow man, it's huge difference.
Will definitely try Jetstar!! :)

vmtech
03-05-2005, 08:42 AM
Looks like its worthwhile to fly Jetstar eh.

Jetstar rtn fare is $111.00 inclusive of all charges.
Will definitely try Jetstar!! :)


which days did u choose to fly on?
i only managed to get $151.. flyin on june 17-21

embassy1
03-05-2005, 11:20 AM
cheap thrill..

Flown Jetstar many times. always get to sit in row 1 as travel with kid.

If you sit on the seats D E or F, you always face the "customer service coordinators" at a diagonal. When they speak on the phone sitting done, 50% of the time you can see zaogeng, as their skirts are very short.